mom2four
Bronze
Reged: 03/11/08
Posts: 41
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I am putting off telling my STBX about the divorce until I meet with an attorney, but I did try to talk to him tonight about issues involving our children and the strange abusive ways that he "plays" with them. For those not familiar with my story, he likes to do strange things like twisting my childrens' arms or squeezing their fingers until they cry, then telling them they are a sissy, or that it didn't hurt. He has several times forced my girls to sit on his lap until they cried for me and I had to intervene, which always then causes a fight between us because he believes he can do anything he wants since they are his children. I wanted to discuss this issue prior to the divorce. He became angry and said that I have no right to accuse him of being abusive when I have "accepted worse behavior in my past". He became loud and asked if I am saying that I think he abuses the girls. I said that yes, I see him with my own eyes doing things that are abusive. He then said, "Well, you think you are so perfect... let's look at you and your parenting. All you do is work all night and sleep all day."
I don't know what the difference is between sleeping nights and working days or working nights and sleeping days, but at the end of the day, I am parenting my children, with love and care. Every time I try to talk to him about the issues, he tries to throw it all back on me. I am feeling stronger about the divorce because of his reaction/response tonight. But, I am afraid for how ugly he may make this.
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malone
Platinum
Reged: 12/30/07
Posts: 2107
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Your husband is abusive to you. He is abusive to your children. Never doubt that what you are doing is the right thing.
He is getting angry because he doesn't like you challenging him with the unpleasant truth. It's an abusers way of shoutting you down and making you feel 'in the wrong' so that you end up doubting yourself.
I assume you have told your lawyer about the abuse because it needs to be taken into consideration for access arrangmeents.
You are doing a great job. With regard his criticism of your working, he is simply trying to make you insecure about how you care for your children. Don't let him be successful. Be proud of what you are doing and carry on.
Congratulations on leaving him. Be strong. It will all be worth it.
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ttina
Platinum
Reged: 02/28/08
Posts: 398
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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He became angry and said that I have no right to accuse him of being abusive when I have "accepted worse behavior in my past". He became loud and asked if I am saying that I think he abuses the girls. I said that yes, I see him with my own eyes doing things that are abusive. He then said, "Well, you think you are so perfect... let's look at you and your parenting. All you do is work all night and sleep all day."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What in the world does previous abuse you've "put up with" have to do with this situation? He is reaching for validation for what he knows is wrong.
What does working have to do with abuse? My momma worked many a night shift when we were growing up... She whipped us and washed our mouths out with soap when we needed it... But it was not abuse or neglect. She loved us kids, she did the best she could. Yes,s eh did sleep duiring the day..... when she wasn't going to college or typing up term papers to make extra money (before computers).
I have posted on this situation on your other post... Do you hear guilt and desperation in his voice? There is the chance that what looks obvious to survivors isn't happening... but when it comes to your children... better safe than sorry. If you feel he will fight for custody or deny charges.... keep a diary of suspicious behavior with dates and times and explainations. Nobody will fault a momma for keeping her girls safe. Have you talked to your older daughter? She's at about the age of the oldest when you and your husband married.
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stoltz
Platinum
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1494
Loc: Texas
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Men generally play "rougher" than women with their kids - I know I do. It's one of those things that fathers bring to a parent-child relationship, which helps them grow. I read one time where fathers do a better job of "teaching" children to expand their limitations more and help them overcome fear moreso than mothers because they tend to play a little rougher/physical/etc. with their kids than mothers (e.g., tossing the kids up in the air, wrestling). Some experts even think that when a couple divorce and the kids lose their father that it may have a bearing as to their later development in this area.
HOWEVER ...
There is a distinct line between playing "rough" and abuse. The question then is is what he doing abuse. From your description, it certainly sounds like abuse.
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malone
Platinum
Reged: 12/30/07
Posts: 2107
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[quote]Men generally play "rougher" than women with their kids - I know I do. It's one of those things that fathers bring to a parent-child relationship, which helps them grow. I read one time where fathers do a better job of "teaching" children to expand their limitations more and help them overcome fear moreso than mothers because they tend to play a little rougher/physical/etc. with their kids than mothers (e.g., tossing the kids up in the air, wrestling). Some experts even think that when a couple divorce and the kids lose their father that it may have a bearing as to their later development in this area.
[/quote]
Stoltz is right about this. The rough and tumble of PLAY helps kids learn all important life skills - how to defend themselves, how to survive and learn resilience. My son in particualr loves that and doesn't get nearly enough of it, not because of separation. More because my STBX didn't have that kind of family upbringing himself.
It is however, as he points out, different to physically hurting children. That isn't play, it's abuse.
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mom2four
Bronze
Reged: 03/11/08
Posts: 41
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It is definitely beyond normal "play". I have a nephew also who is now 15 but when he was smaller, my STBX and his brothers would "play" like this with him while he cried, and they seemed to enjoy it more the more they could make him cry. And, my mother-in-law... she would tell my nephew to shut up because they weren't hurting him. Early in our relationship, my STBX would want to wrestle with me and this often ended up with me having bruises on my arms. I hated it, and when I tried to tell him this, my father-in-law said I had a problem because that was just the way my STBX expressed his affection. All these years later, I realize that's when I should have walked out.
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mom2four
Bronze
Reged: 03/11/08
Posts: 41
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[quote]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He became angry and said that I have no right to accuse him of being abusive when I have "accepted worse behavior in my past". He became loud and asked if I am saying that I think he abuses the girls. I said that yes, I see him with my own eyes doing things that are abusive. He then said, "Well, you think you are so perfect... let's look at you and your parenting. All you do is work all night and sleep all day."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What in the world does previous abuse you've "put up with" have to do with this situation? He is reaching for validation for what he knows is wrong.
What does working have to do with abuse? My momma worked many a night shift when we were growing up... She whipped us and washed our mouths out with soap when we needed it... But it was not abuse or neglect. She loved us kids, she did the best she could. Yes,s eh did sleep duiring the day..... when she wasn't going to college or typing up term papers to make extra money (before computers).
I have posted on this situation on your other post... Do you hear guilt and desperation in his voice? There is the chance that what looks obvious to survivors isn't happening... but when it comes to your children... better safe than sorry. If you feel he will fight for custody or deny charges.... keep a diary of suspicious behavior with dates and times and explainations. Nobody will fault a momma for keeping her girls safe. Have you talked to your older daughter? She's at about the age of the oldest when you and your husband married. [/quote]
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Thank you, ttina. He actually had me feeling guilty about the shift that I work. But, as I thought more about it, I remembered that this shift allows me to take my girls to school, go home and sleep, then also be the one to pick them up and be with them until bed time. This shift is hard on me, but I accept that sacrafice because it allows me MORE time with the kids.
To answer your question, No, when I address this sisue with my STBX, there is no regret in his voice. He becomes the victim and I am just mean for thinking he could do any wrong. He always tries to turn everything around to make me feel bad and stop thinking on what he does. But, the thing is, he never has anything to throw in my face. I am by no means a perfect person. I have made mistakes. But, he has nothing at all that he can find in his arsenal to paint me as anything less that a loving, attentive mother. I just need to remember that and stop going in circles when he tries to manipluate me.
I have talked to my oldest daughter. She is now 20, but was 5 when my STBX and I moved in together. She hates him still, because of the way he always was, plus he was jealous of the relationship she and I always had. He always put me in a position of having to choose between him or her. The crazy thing about this is that soon after we got together, I found out that my oldest children were sexually abused. I know that if I hadn't been dealing with that, I would not have stayed in this relationship. I kind of sunk into a depression and when I came out of it, I had another child and was living with him. That is the one thing that makes me think he may not be sexually abusing the girls, I've been there with 2 other children and I haven't seen any signs, other than the weird way my STBX plays with the girls. I am leaving him, no matter what. I have to trust that my lawyer and the psychologist will help me get this all sorted. I feel like a frazzled emotional mess right now, but I know that once I get through this, the kids and I will be OK. By ourselves.
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ttina
Platinum
Reged: 02/28/08
Posts: 398
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You know your girls. As long as you put their needs first things will work out as best they can. It will not be easy. Do not allow him to manipulate you. Listen to your gut, listen to your girls, listen to that "momma" voice. When he tries to turn it into him being the victim, remember he made the choice to behave this way. He is an adult and cannot be "made" to do anything. A victim is somebody who is having something done to them that they have no control over... an adult sees actions as harmful to others and avoids those actions. Be strong.
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malone
Platinum
Reged: 12/30/07
Posts: 2107
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[quote]It is definitely beyond normal "play". [/quote]
I definitely agree with you and replied that way earlier. It's cruelty, not play. You need to bring this up with your lawyer as it needs to have consequences for access and visitation.
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OutOfControl
New
Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 8
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I would get a restraining order as soon as possible, he is being abusive to your children and the child protection agency can take them away from you because you do not stop it (I mean remove the husband). They have alot of power and I would hate for you to find out the hard way that they will take your children. Even if you fight in front of them. He sounds like my husband only he picks on me, my mom and our son. He is a bully and has no sense of right or wrong. I feel for you and it is only going to get worse. Trust me I have been there. HUGS
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