faith4two
Platinum
Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 353
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There have been threads where it almost feels as though some would like to run the "cheaters" out of town.
Hate to disappoint, but I'm hanging out for a while longer.
I do have a question though. And I ask because I have a genuine and well-meaning motive. My BF, his X, and I are all attempting to remain civil and friendly. I'm not as insensitive to her as some would like to think. His X is not insensitive to my situation either (but she knows many more details than I put out here, too).
I just can't feel what she feels. Likewise, she can't feel what I feel, or maybe she can as it came out of the woodwork during their divorce that before she met my BF/her X, she had a relationship with a married man.
It makes for some interesting discussion at times, and only once have we had to stop and say "okay, this isn't going anywhere. We need to agree to disagree."
The label of "cheater" and/or "cheatmate" is such that it implies a complete undesirable individual, or unrepairable damaged goods.
For those who wear the victim badge, has the thought ever occurred that being a victim implies damaged goods? Why is it a victim can be repaired, but a cheater can't?
Cheaters have been defined in various threads as selfish. Wouldn't it be just as selfish to pin that victim badge on every day? What message do you send to your children (if you have them) in doing so? What benefit do you derive from it?
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malone
Platinum
Reged: 12/30/07
Posts: 1937
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I'm one of those people who DON'T see cheating in black and white. I'm not programmed that way. I just see multiple shades of grey - from pale grey to dark grey when it comes to people.
Just on Friday I had lunch with a man who suddenly told me how he'd cheated on his wife during his marriage. (He's an ex business colleague in his 60's who is like a father and mentor to me). I'm not sure why he told me and was surprised he did, but I guess at some time in your life you just want to talk to someone about it.
Believe it or not, he was however a very loving husband to his wife, a good provider and devoted father to his children.
Then there is the cheater who cheated on a dear and close friend of mine. The sleaze bag guy who invented a truly woeful reason for skipping off on a 'boy's trip' two weeks after his wife had just given birth to their first child by cesearean, whose mother had died suddenly two days BEFORE she gave birth.
His selfishness was breathtaking to me and still is to this day. He ripped her off constantly with money, and ripped her and his baby son off in the divorce settlement.
I know there are those on this forum who will feel differently to me and I accept that.
But in these two examples I see a man who was was a good father and husband but at times disappointed them for his own reasons. And then I see a despicable human being of a cheater in the man who cheated on my friend, her dead mother and his baby son. One I accept, the other I cannot set eyes on without wanting to tell him what I think of him.
Edited by malone (05/19/08 06:07 AM)
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Jada
Platinum
Reged: 06/02/07
Posts: 3345
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[quote]Cheaters have been defined in various threads as selfish. Wouldn't it be just as selfish to pin that victim badge on every day? What message do you send to your children (if you have them) in doing so? What benefit do you derive from it? [/quote]
I am not a victim. Doesn't change the fact that my ex is abusive and that is something that he is going to have to live with for the rest of his life.
Just like you are a cheater. And that is something that you are going to have to live with for the rest of your life.
Cheating is selfish. No matter how much you try to justify it. It's selfish.
Now the better question is: Are you going to learn from your mistakes and move on? You can't change what you did, you can't change that the label cheater and cheatmate applies to you and your cheatmate. And probably will for the rest of your life.
But you can change how you would handle the end of a marriage with your next marriage. And second marriages have an even higher divorce rate than the first marriages do.
I don't know about you, but if I was with someone who I cheated with who also cheated on his wife, I would always have that doubt: He cheated once, what's to stop him from doing that again?
And he would also have that same doubt.
A better question to ask about the children is: What kind of message are you sending them by cheating?
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PinkRose
Platinum
Reged: 07/09/07
Posts: 1769
Loc: Not sure!!!
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Great post Jada!!
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I'm a living sunset... there's light in my bones. You can push me to the edge, but my will is stone!
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cubsfan
New
Reged: 03/01/08
Posts: 24
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I have an idea. Why don't we send all the cheaters to the island where they used to put all the lepers? I mean, you know, since they obviously have no redeeming qualities at all.
Jada, I don't know your situation any more than you know mine or most of the other people on this site. And many of us cheaters have learned a very valuable lesson from our selfish actions. But to say that because a person cheated makes them a non-redeemable member of society is ridiculous. I was raised with the notion that ALL people can seek forgiveness for their actions if willing to learn from the mistake.
I'm well aware of the failure rate of relationships that stem from affairs. But to live the rest of my life in fear of what may come is ludicrous. I would rather have 2 years with the woman I had an affair with, than another 20 with the person I was previously married to.
Yes, no doubt, I should have manned up and ended the marriage if I was unhappy BEFORE having an affair. But how convenient for you or anyone else that you never lived inside my head, or for that matter, my marriage. It's infinitely easier to sit on the sidelines and judge if it's not YOU in the game.
I learned a lot about who I am, and more importantly, who and what I DON"T want to be in the future. What I did WAS selfish, and caused great harm. I'm a better man and person today because of it.
Labels SUCK! I would be willing to bet that there isn't a person here that hasn't done something they are not proud of, or that caused another person harm or pain. Wouldn't it be a shitty world if we all lived with the labels others have given us, and couldn't redeem ourselves in the process?
I had an affair. It's something I did, NOT who I am.
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juliacinaz
Platinum
Reged: 02/03/08
Posts: 858
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You said:
"But to say that because a person cheated makes them a non-redeemable member of society is ridiculous."
I did not read that anywhere in Jada's post. Did I miss something?
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Books29
Platinum
Reged: 02/20/08
Posts: 345
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To Cubsfan,
You know...it doesn't make it any easier if the you did man up and end the marriage because you wanted to cheat. My stbx still denies any physical affair from happening at the end of our marriage. But, he DID have an emotional affair and consumated the act after we separated. I still view this as cheating. Then he dumped her. I was a good wife to my stbx. I didn't get and will never get why he RAN instead of fighting for a marriage that could of held so much promise. If you make a vow and there is no emotional or physical abuse, alcoholism, or affairs, you should keep to that vow and at least try to work it out with the person you are with through counseling and understanding. My stbx was and is selfish and is having a life crisis and decided to end our marriage without even trying to work on it because he had an itch to scratch and wanted to once again, embrace his youth. So...even if you would of ended the marriage so that you could turn around and cheat with whoever you were emotionally involved with, it doesn't make it any better. But, that's my two cents and that's my situation. Cheating is cheating, whether it's physical or emotional, it's wrong and as Jada said, it is selfish and self-serving. Yes, it can be forgiven but at the same time the act itself is WRONG. And, it inflicts so much pain on the other person. And that is WRONG. That is why it is selfish. Because there is no thought of the other person involved in the marriage. But, I guess if you make an avid attempt to change and you don't repeat it in the future, then you can redeem yourself.
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faith4two
Platinum
Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 353
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Why is it that when someone who posts on this board goes to jail, s/he doesn't get a harsh and nasty label?
Why is it that when someone who admits to alcoholism, he avoids the harsh and nasty label?
Obviously something is WRONG in those situations, too, no?
My own journey beyond cheating is really NONE of anyone's business, and I do NOT have to answer Jada's, or anyone else's questions regarding MY situation and what I'm doing to move on with my life - unless I choose to. If I did, would that remove the animosity and over-the-top name-calling???
Probably not.
Now, if there's anyone out there who wants to take my example and hypothetical question and come up with a response that addresses the other extreme, that of the impact of being a victim, whether you were or weren't, by all means, have at it.
Otherwise, I'm done on this thread. If I wanted to be verbally abused, I'd have stayed with my STBX and never had the affair in the first place.
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EZmark
Platinum
Reged: 06/04/07
Posts: 292
Loc: Florida
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I totally disagree with your atypically gender biased perceptions, but surprisingly sometimes totally agree with you as in this post. At least you know where you stand, and that is on your morals and children, grounds that cheaters will never know. +1 Pinkrose.
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SetterMama
Platinum
Reged: 02/24/07
Posts: 808
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
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Thank you Books - you just said it all.
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He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still. ~ Lau Tzu
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