klba
New
Reged: 11/25/07
Posts: 6
|
|
I am married to a wonderful man,he is an excellent father, and also an excellent step father to my children. Problem is, his children have decided they wont come to our house with him because they have a problem with me, which shocks me, there havent been any problems, other than the normal adjustment when we first started dating 5 years ago, He has been divorced for 6 years, we have been married for four, his ex wife cant stand the fact that her kids are around another woman, so she fills their heads with garbage and manipulates them. This has always happened, but now the kids refused to come with him this weekend, on his time(isnt there some kind of law against interfering with a court order) and she is taking him to court to try to take his rights away. The kids are 11 and 13, can that happen or will they tell her shes being ridiculous,I know the court will let them make some decisions at their age, she honestly is crazy, and our marriage is not going to be ruined because of all these games, we've already made that clear to them. I dont know what I can do, she never quits, shes obviously very insecure as a mother, now her kids are becoming just as crazy, theyve been brainwashed over time.I feel so bad for my husband, hes brokenhearted, but also feels so disappointed in the kids for letting her get in their heads with all this trash. HELP!!
|
KGrow
Platinum
Reged: 01/27/06
Posts: 3153
Loc: Colorado
|
|
Heartbroken is an appropriate response. I don't see any easy answers here. I'm glad to hear that your marriage remains strong. If you can be there for each other, that will certainly help you through this.
|
divorce1
Platinum
Reged: 04/10/07
Posts: 478
Loc: southern state
|
|
He can enforce the visitation but at their age this may cause them to go further away etc. he needs to first take them off by their selves and have a talk with them with out you around. Maybe go for luch or dinner or something. He needs to get to the bottom of their thinking and help them through this not force it.
You need to realise that you are the SM and let him handle it. This I tried to do but failed at times to do and now realise that I should have been better at it. It can without you or him realising it cause you problems so just encourage him to talk to the children and see them away from the home some till they are more comfortable again.
This will be hard on you I know. Also you want to teach them respect toward you etc. Also in your heart you know it is the mom not the children. This makes you want to clear up their misconception even more. Been there done that. It only hurts you in the long run. Only he as their dad can solve this without them later getting upset at you for talking about their mom etc.
Just be there for him and listen. Have him decide on what to say to the children do not even make suggestions. If you do and it turns out to go wrong then that is against you with his children involved. Not a place you want to be.
don't think this is what you wanted to hear but take waht you want from it and throw the rest away. This is just my oppinion from some exp. on the matter.
|
gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5169
|
|
Read up on Parental Alienation Syndrome. One common tactic is to portray the steps as evil. The kid KNOWs the other parent is NOT evil, so the alienating parent can't be successful in alienating teh kids... so the alienating parent moves on to figuring out OTHER ways to keep the kids away from the other parent, and that involves ... oh, like booking the kids for too many extracurriculars; saying that the step parents, romantic interests, step-siblings are bad; saying the other parent's neighborhood or house is inferior;
Heck, this can start even at separation, not allowign the other parent to take a fair share of the kid's clothing, furniture or toys, claiming it all belongs to the kids, convincing the kids to keep it at the alienating parent's household, and then telling the kids that they'll have no fun at the other parent's house because the other parent doesn't have any of their furniture, clothing, toys (whatever the kids at that age will find more important)...
If you read up on this, you'll realize that you've become a tool for this woman to use against the kids... she THINKS it's used against thier fahter, her rival, but the truth is that she's using the kids, and hurting them, and so doing this is against them as well..
There's nothing you can do to control what she does, you can only control how you respond. Until the kids voluntarily want to see you again, it's worth it to "disappear" durign the times when your husband is spending time with them.
Depending upon how my husband's ex is handling things, I will disappear from time to time. I'll be in another room "working", or I'll have some other activity that I need to do during thier visit time together. It has the bonus of giving him alone time with them and gives him the chance to give them the little bits & pieces of information that he needs to give them as a parent... advice about how to choose a career, a college, how to manage a budget, how to manage a schedule of homework, how to step things up when one grade dips... and they're starting to see how the world really works (not ONLY their mother's "unrealistic" view of it... the "unrealistic" language coming from the therapist & the judge first, but I agree wholeheartedly.)
You really don't have much of a choice at this point... if you are an active participant in visits, the kids won't visit... so you MUST step back for a while. Do it, you might find they soften up towards you once they realize that thier father is still the wonderful man they knew when he still lived with their mother, and if he's that wonderful, maybe his wife is OK, too... but unless you back off for a while, the relationship between him & his kids might be destroyed & un-recoverable, and that would be tragic!
|
golightly
Gold
Reged: 04/10/07
Posts: 141
|
|
I was the evil stepmonster, too, for years. It hurt, because my stepsons are both really nice, warmhearted kids, and I care about them both a lot. The oldest finally started coming around last year, when he spent several months working for our family business. I think he got a new sense of respect for me then, and understanding of our family financial dynamics that had always been rudely misconstrued by his mother. He was also impressed that I was the only one out of four parents that had bothered to set aside anything for his college tuition. He now sees my stinginess in a different light. Hey, it only took 7 years.
With the younger one, it's been a roller coaster. He is with us full time now, even though i'm still often "evil." I guess if I could give you my takeaways, they are as follows:
1) It may take a looong time, but they will come around. They may have to grow up to the point that they see adults as human beings with good points and flaws, but they will grow to see your good points.
2) Remember that they are CHILDREN, and thus by definition easily manipulated by adults they love. Do not take their feelings for you personally, or take your feelings out on them. That's not fair, and in the long run will hurt you, rather than if you just suck up how much it hurts and treat them with the warmth and respect you want back from them (some day).
3) It is imperative that their Dad get his alone-time with his kids. During this time, he needs to stress your good points, as well as how they must show respect to you, regardless of what their feelings might be toward you. A favorite "speech" of my husband's is to point out that he intends to be with me for the rest of his life, and although he will love his kids all his life too, he knows they will move off and do their own thing in a few years, whereas I will be there for him always. So, things will go a lot better for us all as a family if they accept me, because I ain't goin' nowhere! (Understandably, kids of divorce might need to hear this several times before they really get it)
4) This is the weirdest and most counterintuitive thing I found: I get along best with my younger SS when their mother is doing well, and he is getting along well with her. When she is falling apart, and/or he is fighting with her, rather than run to me, he pushes me away.
|
samantha
New
Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 19
|
|
As said in a previous post...read up on Parental Alienation Syndrome....also called PAS. Google it, and then make notes on what types of PAS behaviors you are seeing from the mother. If and when she takes you to court, you can use these to support your arguement that the children need to continue having the time they spend with their father.
|
klba
New
Reged: 11/25/07
Posts: 6
|
|
I have been reading alot on PAS since its been mentioned here, I cant believe how much info. there is on it.I showed the info. on google to my husband, were 100% sure this is what his ex is doing because shes always hated me and has told the kids so many times that their dad left them and ruined their family and that he could come back whenever he wanted. There is a list of symptoms and a majority of them is exactly accurate to our situation. What kind of a mother would do this to their kids? He has a court date soon and is bringing a bunch of the stuff we found because from what Ive read, judges dont always see this for what it is. I hope this all works because its horrible watching my husband go through this, and its so hard for me and my kids too, we thought I had a good relationship with his kids. I just dont know if any court order will make her stop, she is honestly sick, shes flipped out 2 times recently that we know about with her kids right there, but yet Im the bad one. I really believe the kids are afraid of her.
|
gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5169
|
|
What kind of mother would do this to her kids? Well, either one who is legitimately sick, psychiatrically. OR one who has watched movies, heard others in how they handled divorces, got advice from friends on how to assure that they get thier fair share in the divorce.
SO MANY of them do not realize how much they're hurting thier kids, and do a few alienating things just because they're angry at the Dad & not getting it that the kids are in the crossfire here. It's weird to read the literature & see that someone is doing EVERY one of the things mentioned like they did it on purpose, but I think part of the problem is that, especially for the sick ones, this kind of attempt to gain favorite status with the kids is second nature & there are some very easy ways to assure that when a divorce is taking place.
Heck, I was watching a movie the other day & the divorced mother was dressing her kid for a visit with Dad, talking to him about what she wanted him to say to his Dad about how the child support check was missing & she couldn't feed herself or the kid without it... It was as ordinary a conversation as if she'd had it with an adult, and the kid just stood there, having his mama button up his jacket, taking it all in. It's not like this mother wanted the kid to hate the father, but she was treating the kid like a messenger in his own life drama... NOT right to do to a kid, because the message being sent is not something the kid should hear. In the movie, we never heard whether there was an explanation for why the support check was late, whether it was a glitch at teh clearinghouse or whatever, we didn't hear ... and supposedly neither did the kid.
It was an older movie, I forget which one, but I recall not even blinking an eye when I saw the scene the first time I saw the movie, and no one ever mentioned it. Now that I KNOW about PAS, I can see it happening when they show stuff like this on TV or in the movies, but most people don't have a clue... it's just part of that trauma we call "divorce", and no one bats an eye when the kid is witness to this part... heck, this part doesn't even look too dramatic, just like an ordinary conversation with the kid about budgets & such... it's not played like the wrong thing to do... I mean, what ELSE is the mother to do when the support check hasnt' arrived?
No where is it discussed that she's about to spend the week alone & apparently does not work to support herself. No where is it discussed that she COULD have sent the man a note or talked to him about the support check rather than talking to the kid about it. The kid never does mention it to his Dad... and we can see why. It is clear from the circumstances of the visit that Dad is impoverished & can't afford to write a new check out right now. The family is overall, poor, and neither parent can support it. Mom blames it on Dad & stands in the kitchen, buttoning up the kid's jacket. Dad tries to deal with it, not blaming it on anyone. But no one watching would think that what Mom had done was wrong... except someone who has read up on PAS.
Rather than say "PAS" in court & expect the court to agree, the way to go about it seems to be to describe the individual things she has done adn explain how that stuff is likely to estrange the kid from the father. THe language used in the PAS literature is helpful because it helps direct your thinking on the issue, but you're right, it's tough to get the judges to acknowledge it as a bad thing. In my husband's case, the therapists & the judges actually said his ex was doing these things and that it was bad & they wanted her in therapy for it... but luckily the things she did, did NOT result in the kids rejecting their father, so the therapist diagnosing THEM said, "no PAS"... great, for THEM. It hasn't stopped the mother from trying... which is why she is ordered into intensive psychotherapy as a result of the custody battle.
BUT even though we have therapists AND judges saying that she TRIES to create PAS... these same therapists & judges have been unable to change anything as a result of it. Part of that is that the kids are teens & the system is not going to change custody if the kids don't WANT to change (and PAS has acted to make them want to stay with her, of course)... so we're stuck.
I keep holding onto Golightly's wisdom, that the kids DO come around, even if it takes a LOOOOONG time.
I'm so impatient sometimes, it's hard!
|
kota1967
Platinum
Reged: 01/26/06
Posts: 1480
Loc: New England
|
|
I am not sure my opinion will matter or make a difference but I will give it anyway...for me the key was to stop worrying about what the Step kids thought of me...what was more important was what I thought of myself...they know how to manipulate and hurt...even at a young age...my SS lashed out at my kids...hurt them with his words and his actions..he thought if he hurt them he would ultimately hurt me and I would "go away"...well that was not the case...I never allowed him to bully me or my kids...even if my husband was afraid to stand up to him (hated my SS being angry with him) I have always stood up to him...for me it is not an X that tried to ruin the relationship but my Step kids themselves...they are all jealous of my kids because they have two parents involved...and we are supposed to "feel sorry" for them because their mom left...I feel bad but I don't feel sorry...I don't allow them to use this as an excuse to be nasty and mean and selfish...it has been many years now and three of them are adults and the youngest is now 14...you can only us a crutch for so long and then you need to get past it...I have stood strong for me and my kids and I have not allowed us to be the whipping post for these kids or my husband...sympathy wore off a long time ago...they have too much in this life that is good to continue to focus on this one point and make it an every day excuse to fail...but anyway that is just my story...(:
|
gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5169
|
|
Your opinion makes a difference. I see the older SS being clearly greedy and resentful and all the things that deserve saying that at this point, it's his decision to be wrong-minded and his mother's encouragement of that attitude is simply ridiculous but at this point, if he were smart he'd have figured it out and stopped trying ot use Dad as a very high priced ATM (he's beyond wanting $$ for iPods & video games... he's gone on to demanding we pay part of his $40K a year college or his summer vacation with friends in Europe, and if we dont' give into the blackmail, he won't love his father any more...)...
but the little ones, I can't blame them for following their mother's demands on hwat to do. She is thier primary residential parent and she bribes them. They get a car if they dont' visit their father. THey get inforamtion from her about how their Father won't support their activities. She uses the support money to take them on lavish vacations and then makes claims that it's all "air miles" that's paying for the vacations... but thier Father hasn't paid enough support to even provide them with socks. She shows up at our house with a new $35,000 car (old one was just 2 years old & probably still upside down on it's loan) and on the same day sends a message that instead of using the support for paying for the kids' activities that she should have, their activities fees are all in arrears and if we dont' pay within 24 hours the kids will be kicked out of their activities, and the threat that she will make certain they know that if they don't get to do their activities that it's all their Dad's fault.
It's crazy. But I can't blame the kids for this. It's clearly the mother who is doing it.
Now, if they get to adulthood, spend 2 years away from the mother like the older one has done, and STILL act resentful ... well, I'll probably be less likely to be so forgiving for thier behavior. In the meantime, when they try to duck out of time with thier Dad because their Mom has said the party of the century which is taking place at thier neighborhood this weekend is more important than their time with their Dad... well... that's kind of the job of a kid, isn't it, to find a way to get thier parents to give them more, more freedom, more stuff... more. And if Mother gives it to them and Dad does not, well, that's a bribe and they are an age where they really ARE susceptible to that kind of bribery.
Creating a contest for most favorite parent is not good for them, and we don't have to participate in the contest (which is what I'm taking from your advice, really, is to not compete in this contest she's created)... but we can't pretend the contest isn't being held.
When we read the literature on PAS and it looks like the woman has taken the "what not to do" and used it as her model of what TO do... well, it's hard not to recognize that this was created by her and continues to be directed by her. My husband waged the custody battle and won as much time as he could get without taking the kids otu of thier schools or activities, but this still leaves her as the primary parent... the one who puts food on the table (brings it home from the fast food joint) every night, and so we can't really put much of the blame on them.
I'm going to give them a few years away from her daily influence and purse strings before I let myself feel angry at them for not figuring it out and still being rude or greedy.
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
