What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 705
Loc: PA
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This sounds stupid but if i tell her i want her out of my life, she will be living here for the intervening months and I know she will have a hard time with me still treating her civilly. See the problem is i still do, and will be doing everything for my disabled wife until the time she leaves. She has no local support, closest is 250 miles away.
I think it will be very hard for her to accept that i'm simply fed up with things and her not trying to quit smoking, call doctors, get better etc. She will try to blame A B C on it and it could go into a pissing match but i wont let it, i see no value to it. And i fully believe life will go on with us just sitting there watching tv every night etc. So should i help both of us get through it, assuming i try to do this, and be mean to her so it gives her rationale for the divorce? I know it sounds cold but in a perfect world id just tell her i think we'd be great friends but i dont love her like a wife anymore. She does know i dont look at her as a wife, told her that last week in therapy. So i think none of this will be a surprise to her but she's just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I feel guilty about abandoning her but ive tried my best for 7 years. My resolve in life is so drained by her.
-------------------- call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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linds07
Bronze
 
Reged: 12/31/07
Posts: 26
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I think it's completely awful and cruel to go out of your way to be mean to someone in a situation like divorce. To kick her when she's already down does nothing but make YOUR life easier. Why don't you just do her a favor and walk away now instead of being, as you say, "cold."
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gigi
Platinum
 
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 4674
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Don't be mean. Don't think you can figure this out for her. Be yourself and let her figure out her own emotional recovery for herself.
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What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 705
Loc: PA
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well the truth is if i havent been mean yet, i wont be. That's part of my problem. I continue to do stuff like i always have. So i feel guilty that this may come out of left field. then again almost a year of therapy she has to know things arent right. It's just my therapist told me to be straight with her so i tried telling her directly that her smoking is killing me (plus the cat ) and she told me 'what is the solution? I'm trying and when you tell me to quit you make me not want to". This has gone on for over a year that she uses me as an excuse.
My guy has told me to get a life outside the home so that's how i'm going to proceed. He said tell you are you going X and what can she do? So that's what i'm going to start doing. And as stated above, she can process that how she wishes. I just have guilt doing stuff and not being with her so i was and continue to be her entire life. she refuses to use the laptop i got her and even despises calls from family back home. Sees called ID and ignores them.
So i guess i have to do short term what i need to do to be happy and go from there. Ill still get her meds, feed her, take her to the doctor, do all the housework etc. At least she cant say i abandoned her in that way. And i guess i dont know why i even care what she thinks anymore. Thats part of my problem, i wish i was uncaring sometimes and just ran away to hawaii lol.
-------------------- call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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gigi
Platinum
 
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 4674
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You have done everything for her for a very long time, including being her only social network. Divorce means you will no longer have to be her everything, but that doesn't mean you have to be mean about it. You simply have to separate. You've given her all the possible ways of reaching out or doing right, and she refuses, so simply do what you need to do in order to maintain your own sanity, and understand that it won't be easy for her but that she has other outlets if she chooses to take them (the laptop, phone calls from friends or family, etc.)
Hey, from what I gather, she does not get out on her own, so I suggest you simply stop BUYING the cigarettes that are killing you & her and the cat (and probably the value of your home for resale), and when she complains don't respond. If she wants stuff badly enough, she'll find a way that won't involve you, and that will give her at least one contact with the outside world (if only to find the local convenience store's delivery service).
YOu start going out and seeing friends... find a support group if you want, or go to a local gym & lift weights... do something healthy even if your first instinct is to find a smoky dirty tavern and drink yourself into oblivion (drinking makes the emotional stuff harder to deal with, so it's better to cut back if you're a drinker, while you're going through divorce) and the only thing you need to do is to make certain she is not left in a physically dangerous situation (if she needs 24 hour care, find a relief nurse for you to get away until you can get her into a nursing home).
My advice for you if you want to be NICE to her is the same as my advice if you were wondering if you shoudl be MEAN... be cordial, take care of business, and let her figure out her own emotional needs and let HER take care of her own emotional needs. You can't do it any more and ...
well, frankly, a person saying they want to get divorced, who is focused on trying to HELP the person they're divorcing, is really no help at all. The more you stick around, the more contact, the worse it gets. It's ... dare I say arrogant... to believe that you are the best person to help her get over you ... and for you to stay in her life, to remain her main social outlet during this time... actually hurts her more than it helps.
Read some of the threads on "no contact" to find out why.
I know "no contact" is an impossibility for you for a while, for whatever reasons you've decided that it is impossible (you better believe it would be possible if she picked up the phone and accused you of violence... all of a sudden, you'd be out and all your concern about her not being able to fend for herself without you would be worthless... take a read at any of "confused&Sad"s early posts)... truly, it's a bit naive?... arrogant?... I don't knwo how to describe it... arrogantly naive??? to believe that it will take months for something to work out that you and she can be separate, but since you believe that... at the very least, recognize that she WILL have to figure out how to handle being left, without your help, because by definition, your help just makes her more pathetic, it just makes it impossible for her to figure out how to get along without your help.
You cannot do THIS part for her. You NEED to leave her alone to work out her own emotional response to your announcement that you're leaving, and to find her own support group. You might be surprised at how quickly she'll find family and friends to help her out. Heck, you might want to warn them, let them know that she's going to need some support soon because you've decided that caregiver is not something you can continue with, (for so many reasons you can't possibly explain them all to her family), and that through counseling you've told her this, but that she's not done a single thing to resolve your issues so you're leaving and she might need some support in the near future. THAT would be about the ONLY thing I'd consider doing, and not letting it become a long discussion where they try to change your mind or ask for details, just say you don't want to say all the bad stuff and just want to move on and find a way for her to move on, and in doing that you just wanted to let them know what was up in case she reached out to them for help... etc., etc... you CERTAINLY don't want to get into a situation where you are explaining all your reasons for leaving to them and it will necessarily feel like you are trashing her to them.
But after that, you'll have done EVERYTHING possible to give her a connection to the outside world so she will have emotional support other than you, and after you do that, you NEED to let her deal with this without you.
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What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 705
Loc: PA
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argh, i had long response typed up but forum got closed...so trying again
[quote]You have done everything for her for a very long time, including being her only social network. [yes and i fault myself for not doing stuff much outside the marriage...now here i am making friends and leaving her behind...i just hate she will be out in the cold and i already have a leg up on moving on]
Hey, from what I gather, she does not get out on her own, so I suggest you simply stop BUYING the cigarettes that are killing you & her and the cat
[i cant be so mean to stop taking her to get them but i will not get them by myself anymore..she will have to go in and get them..i feel so dirty getting them]
YOu start going out and seeing friends
find a smoky dirty tavern and drink yourself into oblivion (drinking makes the emotional stuff harder to deal with, so it's better to cut back if you're a drinker, while you're going through divorce) and the only thing you need to do is to make certain she is not left in a physically dangerous situation (if she needs 24 hour care, find a relief nurse for you to get away until you can get her into a nursing home).
[well she'd dropped 1 cig in the chair that i saw and got one burn on her hand..other than that not too dangerous...unless you count the bashing on her head that she didnt tell me about last week....as far as the booze, i've been nursing a case of beer for 2 years so maybe time to go wild and finish it lol..i actually thought about taking up drinking but i forget to drink and when i do remember i drink one and get full and stop...i'm definitely going out and seeing friends..that part of it i'm doing to keep sanity]
well, frankly, a person saying they want to get divorced, who is focused on trying to HELP the person they're divorcing, is really no help at all. The more you stick around, the more contact, the worse it gets.
.......to remain her main social outlet during this time... actually hurts her more than it helps.
[i guess i'm not helping then..i just want to protect her and help her along....i guess i need to let her alone a bit so she figures out what to do and who to talk to...but like a parent, i worry about her]
Read some of the threads on "no contact" to find out why. I know "no contact" is an impossibility for you for a while, for whatever reasons you've decided that it is impossible
[i believe when i say things, it will be better here short term because i'm knowing i'll be getting out and then can stop giving her hope]
You might be surprised at how quickly she'll find family and friends to help her out. Heck, you might want to warn them,
[ well i cant warn them, dont talk to them as it is lol....i do hope she quickly gets adapted though...i just feel like crap]
-------------------- call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 705
Loc: PA
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Well, i may not have been tactful but after all i've been thru i feel it's not that big a deal. I left her a note this morning pretty much saying we have to talk to night, i dont think i can do this anymore.
she called me at work..i'll try to summarize as best i can:
first started off all sweet, asked me how i was doing and stuff like that. Then in no particular order:
1. I'm sentencing her a life of doom, her mom doesnt like me but her mom doesnt want her and she cant live on her own! She'd rather be dead than life of doom
2. threatened to kill herself..but then said she wouldnt ever do it when i wasnt home, she didnt want me to worry about her, said she'd do it while i was home...then said dont worry, she wont do it anyway (she's tried at least 3x the past 12 years)
3. said when i met her i knew she was screwed up but i told her if she was half as bad i would still love her. She told me today she is half as bad and i'm supposed to still love her.
4. brought up her smoking and i told her how it killed me and every time i bring it up to tell her i hate it, she uses it as an excuse to keep on smoking..she said with all the bad stuff happening, she has to keep smoking...i said ok well you cant yell at me for saying what's on my mind when you told me it was bad i didnt say all these years
5 ADMITTED until last year when i said i might leave, she DID NOT try as hard as she could to get better prior to that time, but now that she knows i will leave she said PLEASE give her one more chance. I asked for confirmation. She said yes she didnt try as hard because she never thought id leave her.
6. i said as much as it pains you to go to all your doctors, it's me that has to take off work, drive you there, then sit there and watch them prod you and after all that, not a single one has helped you...so this is painful for me too
7. when you were told you plauteued in phys therapy and had to leave, you did NOTHING at home but sit there and complain that no one else ever helped you. I've seen people worse off that you including your dad and they got better or at least tried. her dad had a stroke and was near death but got to drive and function for 5 more years! Talk about an example of determination.
8. i took the blame for A coddling her B not encouraging her in the proper way obviuosly C not telling her all this before last year and now
9 I never doubted her love for me. But now she said she wants to be miserable with me rather than miserable without me. I told her if i stay it wont be fun for either of us and she said she doesnt care, she is better off with me. I did not have the heart to say i wont be miserable without her.
10.said one day i will have another woman leave me and it will hurt me bad and she will feel sorry for me
11. said her mom doesnt like me and wont take her in so she has nowhere to go
12 says i wont try to be romantic with her anymore and she is right..but she thinks if we just start hugging and kissing it will all come back again...i said unless your attitude and all else changes, i dont think it ever could come back
13 i summarized and said how can you want me even if i am not willing to try..ive obviously failed as a hubby because i cant make you better, didnt encourage you right, and havent been treating you well for the past year...why do you want to even stay with a guy like that? she said if i tried it would get better.
so it was a long telephone conversation. I never outright said i want divorced so i guess i have to do that tonight but parts of what she said got under my skin and i wonder if i should give her another chance. But then i think that when you blow up and seek marriage counseling that was putting her on notice that things werent right. And in theory she has had a chance with every doctor we went to see. Plus what really really pissses me off is that she SAID she never tried because she didnt think i'd leave her
what the blank is that about???????????????
-------------------- call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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gigi
Platinum
 
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 4674
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And this current "try" (that she didn't TRY before) consists of begging you to stay. If you stay, she will STILL not believe that you will leave her adn she still won't TRY. Because she will know that all she has to do is beg, plead, make you feel guilty and maybe this time escalate the suicidal threats into an actual suicidal act, and you'll be right back.
She is sick and she can't get better without you. Even if you still loved her, she couldn't get batter with you there. You HAVE to leave her in order for her to get better. And then if she tries, finds a better life, and resolves some of the issues she's had lately, you'll be able to consider whether or not to get back together with her, with her as an independent woman (as independent as she can get) and a full partner in your romance (maybe even re-marriage, if that's what happens), and a complete participant rather than a drain on your emotional and financial resources.
Of COURSE it's better for her to be with you, heck, even if you're angry and hate her, than for her to be without you, because you are acting like her slave, giving everything to her, and not getting anything back in exchange. She's like a child who has decided that it's nicer IN the nest than OUT, so if she can convince Mom & Dad to let her stay for longer rather than go to school or get work or become independent, then she'll stay... let Mom & Dad do her laundry, pay the bills, etc., etc... and then complain that they don't treat her like an independent adult and impose RULES on her like a house curfew and no overnight guests or whatever...
Most kids want to grow up and be independent, but some are willing to let their natural inertia take over and will stay if they can convince their parents to let them. And your wife is treating you in this same way... if she can convince you to let her continue to be lazy and not figure out her own issues, then she WILL. And she's going to whine and try to make you feel guilty, like a nasty guy, if you dare to not go along with her plan.
BUT if you do leave, if you kick her out of the nest, then she just MIGHT find a way to fend for herself without you, and once she does that, she just MIGHT get better enough to attract you again (not that you or I or anyone believes this will happen, but we know for SURE it won't happen unless she DOES change, and we KNOW she will not change if you stay with her, and her motivation seems to be to KEEP you, so if it makes her understand why you need to leave, it's to break her from her inertia so that she can make the changes she needs in order to get you back... because she can not KEEP you, she has LOST you... she has the chance to win you back if she wants, but that chance will not be successful if the best she can do is say she knows you don't love her any more but that she needs you and will kill herself without you ... this is NOT a way to make yourself attractive or renew a romance, and she will see that once you're gone.
The pathetic act is not conducive to a good marriage. Good luck with this evening's talk.
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What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 705
Loc: PA
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wont bore you with too many details except to say that we had a talk and she agreed no hostilities, no one hurting anyone and she said she would get an atty. But i said of course to look things over but we should save money and talk stuff out first.
but she told me i had to say the D word to her and for some reason i couldnt. I know, you prob wanna kick my ass and so do i. I guess the word ATTY scared me lol. And i do feel bad and guilty about the whole thing. But i'll look over my finances again today to try to convince myself i can live without her. I know i know...no price is worth staying, but i really want the house and dont want to be paying huge perm. alimony and subservient to her anyway.
EDIT...i just checked our accounts and THE &*()(*&*( WOMAN took most of the 'settlement 'money out of the joint account...so this is over..she finalized the decision for me for sure
Edited by What will I lose (01/31/08 07:44 AM)
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What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 705
Loc: PA
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so...i called her and woke her up... told her "you are sneaky arent you? you just made my decision for me, I want a divorce"
she started crying that she is sorry and a moron and that she was scared and her mom made her do it. Said she is tired of people telling her what to do (whatever that means). She told me she FORGOT to tell me last night. sat there all night and she just forgot at 15K transaction she did behind my back? I said if that is true then you need to forget about seeing any pain or other doctors and get yourself to a memory doctor as soon as possible. I said that is really bad to forget something like that. Then she said she was 'gonna' tell me and just forgot.
the sucky news for her is...the mom that told her to do this is NOT supporting her and will not let her move in. So she said she will be relegated to her sister/boyfriends trailer out on the farm they live on until she gets HUD or whatever she can afford. I Pity her more than ever now but i am done. She didnt know the 1st thing about all our bank accounts an even the woman on the phone told her she should know more about her money. And of course the woman locked the wrong account for transferring money so now my wife has to call and get that lock undone. My wife is adamant she only locked her solo account, not our joint. Truth is, that woman probably heard we were getting divorced and confused my wife enough that she agreed to the hold and didnt know it.
I told my wife i will not screw with or be hiding money etc. I never would have run off with the money and YOU were the one asking to be civil. I said all money is tracable and even if i gambled it all away, you could get it back thru the legal process!!!! I told her we will come up with a list of stuff we all agree on then i know there will be stuff to fight about and that is fine.
i still feel like &&&& relegating her to a life like she will have after this marriage but at least it will force her to become more independent and learn about things. She did work in a bank so you think she would know more or take an interest in money but she never did. Thought all we bought just got paid out my ass i guess, never knew our visa was so high etc.
the saga continues
-------------------- call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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