Fruztr8ed
(New)
01/02/08 04:53 PM
67.141.231.226
A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

PROBLEM

There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of non-custodial parents (NCP’s) that dodge their responsibility to provide for their children. Furthermore, teen/unplanned pregnancy and divorce rates are off the charts. I believe there is a correlation to these numbers and the laws that govern our family legal system.

Currently most state and local courts use their own guidelines and standards to set child support. The support “awards” are usually set at a percentage of income rather than a flat dollar amount representative of the actual cost of raising a child. In Wisconsin the guidelines suggest that each parent is responsible to equally provide for the child. The support standard is seventeen percent (17%) of the NCP’s income. This standard suggests that each parent is contributing seventeen percent (17%) of their income or thirty four percent (34%) of their combined household income. My wife and I have two children in our house and one that I pay child support for and we still don’t pay thirty four percent of our income on children.

So where do these percentages come from? The Wisconsin Child Support Standard, Chapter DWD 40 states, “the percentage standard established in this chapter is based on an analysis of
national studies, including a study done by Jacques Van der Gaag as part of the Child
Support Project of the Institute for Research on Poverty, University of Wisconsin,
Madison, entitled “On Measuring the Cost of Children.” Yet after reviewing the research seventeen percent (17%) is the amount that a couple contributes to the welfare of a child, not half the cost. Therefore, the courts are charging the NCP’s with one hundred percent (100%) of the actual cost of raising a child.

The laws that govern our child welfare system are antiquated and bias “awarding” exorbident amounts to the custodian and penalizing the NCP. Having a child is not a crime, nor is the child a winning lottery ticket for the custodian. Due to these biases by the court, children are looked upon as income for unwed mothers, teens, and women of unhappy marriages. I also believe it is due to the guildelines that so many NCP’s shirk their responsibility to provide for their children.

The following is an excerpt from the Waukesha County Wisconsin Court Self Help Website:

The assumption, of Wisconsin's DWD 40 Child Support Standard, that all families spend the same percentage of their gross income for raising a child, regardless of the family’s income, is flawed. The application of the DWD 40 standard will result in much higher awards than awards in other states. It requires one parent to pay a child support award which greatly exceeds this parent's share of the realistic cost of raising children, allows the other parent to escape their obligation to contribute an equal percentage of their income to support of the children, and violates the legislative intent as defined in Wisconsin Statute 49.90(1m) and 765.001(2) &(3). This may be perceived as punitive and/or maintenance in disguise and results in increasing the level of conflict between parents which in turn may hurt the very children this support standard is supposed to help.

The above suggests that the courts understand the need for change and yet turn a blind eye to the problem and continue to penalize NCP’s. I will now attempt to provide the foundation for a viable solution to this out of control pandemic.


SOLUTION


The US Department of Agriculture puts out an annual report suggesting the average cost of raising children of different age groups and income classes. The research is derived from data compiled by the US Department of Labor and the report is called the Consumer Expenditure Survey or CES. This report is supposedly used by state and local governments for setting child support and foster care guidelines. The report takes into consideration housing, food, transportation, clothes, healthcare, child care, education, and miscellaneous expenses. You can see a summary of this report on MSN Money at http://moneycentral.msn.com/articles/family/kids/tlkidscost.asp

Using the CES report as a guideline, standards could be created and set up by age group and income classes. Then in a divorce or paternity case the court can revert to the standards and apply the amount to the specific situation. For example: The CES proposes that a family in an income bracket of $41,700.00 to $70,200.00 annually spends $10,900.00 per year to raise a 15 to 17 year old child. This amount can then be applied to that given situation. Using the divorce philosophy (that all marital assets are divided equally without prejudice) each parent will be responsible for half of the cost to raise the child or in this case $5,450.00 per year per parent. The amount will be based on solid research and no bias is shown to either party. The dependent care tax credit should be granted to either parent and split equally between the two parents once received.

In cases where one parent’s income is higher than the other, parent “A”, with the higher income, pays a percentage more based on the percentage of income greater than parent “B”. Then the dependant tax credit is also split by that percentage.

I have outlined the base for a progressive way to move forward in changing the prejudicial guidelines governing our family judicial system. We all can agree that there is a problem with the current child support system. My plan forces accountability for each parent to provide for the child and takes away the penalties and hidden maintenance fees built into the current system. A child is not a means of income and should not be treated as one. Forced accountability changes everything. By forcing accountability for both parents we discourage divorce and unplanned pregnancy and encourage NCP’s to provide for their children as there is no longer a bias against them.


Please provide feedback to this proposal. I am interested in what you all have to say good, bad, or indifferent.

Thank you for your time!


MommaMia
(Platinum)
01/02/08 05:21 PM
68.204.153.220
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

Sounds good to me. I can foresee some issues, but overall not a bad idea.

Jada
(Platinum)
01/02/08 08:43 PM
69.115.64.195
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

Child support should be based on the cost of living of the state where the child is living in, or lived in during the marriage.

And the one who makes more is the one who should pay more. Which is common in income share states, like NJ.


Fruztr8ed
(New)
01/03/08 09:52 AM
67.141.231.226
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

[quote]Child support should be based on the cost of living of the state where the child is living in, or lived in during the marriage.

And the one who makes more is the one who should pay more. Which is common in income share states, like NJ. [/quote]

My plan addresses your assertion. Each juristiction should set up Standards/guidelines that correlate to the cost of living in their state. I use the CES as an example. Furthermore, the person who makes more pays more but is given the tax deduction, or a portion there of, reflective of the percentage of support they pay over and above the other parent.

In order to eliminate the dodging of resposibility to provide we need to eliminate the bias. To reduce the temtation of divorce and unplanned pregnancy we need to create an atmosphere that forces accountability to provide on both parents.


Fruztr8ed
(New)
01/03/08 09:58 AM
67.141.231.226
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

Understand that under my plan you can still choose to make the ncp pay for 100% of the child's care should you choose not to work; you just won't be able to make the ncp pay for YOU as well.

Jada
(Platinum)
01/03/08 06:32 PM
69.115.64.195
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

[quote][quote]Child support should be based on the cost of living of the state where the child is living in, or lived in during the marriage.

And the one who makes more is the one who should pay more. Which is common in income share states, like NJ. [/quote]

My plan addresses your assertion. Each juristiction should set up Standards/guidelines that correlate to the cost of living in their state. I use the CES as an example. Furthermore, the person who makes more pays more but is given the tax deduction, or a portion there of, reflective of the percentage of support they pay over and above the other parent.

In order to eliminate the dodging of resposibility to provide we need to eliminate the bias. To reduce the temtation of divorce and unplanned pregnancy we need to create an atmosphere that forces accountability to provide on both parents. [/quote]

Doesn't work that way. State law does not trump the IRS.

Good luck with getting the IRS to change their regulations.


Jada
(Platinum)
01/03/08 06:33 PM
69.115.64.195
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

[quote]Understand that under my plan you can still choose to make the ncp pay for 100% of the child's care should you choose not to work; you just won't be able to make the ncp pay for YOU as well. [/quote]

Works that way now. A CP who chooses not to work has income imputed to him/her.

Unless there are mitigating circumstances, such as a high medical needs child that NEEDS a parent home. And any ncp who would begrudge the child from having what s/he needs is not acting in the child's best interest at all.


Fruztr8ed
(New)
01/04/08 04:09 PM
67.141.231.226
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

I'm not suggesting the IRS change their regulations, I'm simply stating that the amount of deduction for child care credit be split between the two parents, by the parents, once the tax return is received and ordered to be as such by the court. I can see that this may be a bit of a problem in circumstances where the parent receiving the credit has to pay taxes. I'm sure there are other circumstances I have not thought of either. That is why I have posted this here. This plan is completely preliminary and edited for length to get a feel for areas that need tweeking.

Fruztr8ed
(New)
01/04/08 05:28 PM
67.141.231.226
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

The problem with the system now is the percentage assigned to ncp's is not reflective of the actual cost of raising a child allowing the cp to escape their obligation to provide for the child. To illustrate this assertion I will use guidelines from two states, WI (17% of ncp's income) and NY (21% of ncp's income). Consider the CES example above as base for determining the actual cost of raising a child on a yearly basis:

*Age of child 15 to 17 years

17% of $41,700 is $7,089 > CES Cost $8,000
17% of $70,200 is $11,934 > CES Cost $10,900
17% of $100,000 is $17,000 > CES Cost $15,810

*data obtained from:
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P37245.asp

Best case scenerio in an order where the ncp is mandated to pay 17% of his/her income results in the ncp covering over 88% of the child's actual care. As the income increases so does the percentage of care provided. I do not even need to show the numbers at 21%.

Funny thing about numbers, they can not be disputed. The evidence clearly shows that the system is completely unfair to ncps. Furthermore, the evidence shows that the amount a household spends on the child is in the range of 17% or 8.5% per parent if the incomes are equal.


Jada
(Platinum)
01/04/08 06:24 PM
69.115.64.195
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

[quote]The problem with the system now is the percentage assigned to ncp's is not reflective of the actual cost of raising a child allowing the cp to escape their obligation to provide for the child. To illustrate this assertion I will use guidelines from two states, WI (17% of ncp's income) and NY (21% of ncp's income). Consider the CES example above as base for determining the actual cost of raising a child on a yearly basis:

*Age of child 15 to 17 years

17% of $41,700 is $7,089 > CES Cost $8,000
17% of $70,200 is $11,934 > CES Cost $10,900
17% of $100,000 is $17,000 > CES Cost $15,810

*data obtained from:
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P37245.asp

Best case scenerio in an order where the ncp is mandated to pay 17% of his/her income results in the ncp covering over 88% of the child's actual care. As the income increases so does the percentage of care provided. I do not even need to show the numbers at 21%.

Funny thing about numbers, they can not be disputed. The evidence clearly shows that the system is completely unfair to ncps. Furthermore, the evidence shows that the amount a household spends on the child is in the range of 17% or 8.5% per parent if the incomes are equal. [/quote]

Yes, you are right. It doesn't even begin to cover the cost of raising a child. The cp is the one making up the difference.


Cass321
(New)
01/04/08 06:41 PM
12.218.2.163
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

[quote]PROBLEM

The support standard is seventeen percent (17%) of the NCP’s income. This standard suggests that each parent is contributing seventeen percent (17%) of their income or thirty four percent (34%) of their combined household income. My wife and I have two children in our house and one that I pay child support for and we still don’t pay thirty four percent of our income on children.

[/quote]

I'm getting frustrated trying to understand your math. Try this with some simple numbers to make it easy. Say parent A makes $10 and pays 20 percent($2)of his income for child support. Parent B also makes $10 and pays 20 percent($2)of her income for child support. The $4 they pay together is not 40 percent of their combined income of $20. It is 20 percent.


Fruztr8ed
(New)
01/04/08 10:55 PM
69.134.233.90
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

Where do you live Jada? Laguna Beach? The numbers are the numbers. It doesn't cost $100,000 a year to raise a child but I suppose people like you won't be happy unless your life is completely paid for by others.

1227
(Gold)
01/05/08 12:55 AM
64.81.150.197
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

I agree with your logic NCP should pay for half the cost of raising a child not the 100%, not the lack of interest of CP not to work. I also believe child support was not intended to make anyone rich. It's intension was to provide for a childs needs. Lastly I think it is very important that children within this situation should get equal to what a child in a 2 parent home should or does have ie many kids in single parent homes end up in lots of xtra activities maybe to keep visitation limited maybe to get more $$$ from NCP maybe for babysitting, not sure but really if the child had been in the original home the child would not be in an activity daily. Honestly if a child is in that many activities something will have to give and it will likely be the relationship with other parent as well as their performance in school. Same for schooling if a child would have gone to private school as a wed family then that should be the case but not just to get more $$$$. I think the biggest thing is look out for the children do not let your hate for the other parent get to you and let you lose sight of what you really should be after a normal life for your child.

overwhelmed
(Platinum)
01/05/08 01:03 AM
69.243.200.4
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

I think I agree with your preliminary proposal except it doesn't say anything about the amount of time each parent takes care of the child. For example, an 80/20 split with 50/50 costs would be just as unfair to the CP as the current system is for NCPs. And sometimes 50/50 parenting time isn't possible.

Also, the estimated cost of raising our two children was WAY below the actual cost. I live in a shared income state and our CS is 70/30 (me 30%) of the estimated cost. However, I did a spreadsheet with actual cost of what I spend with having the kids 90% of the time (mostly due to their dad's work schedule and his decision to move away) as opposed to 50% or less and I found that I, the CP, cover about 70% and the NCP covers about 30% even though his income is much higher than mine.

I have no problem at all with being held accountable for where the CS goes but I think that's a can of worms my ex doesn't want to open because it might mean an increase in his CS.

I'm not trying to argue or anything. Just throwing out some things you might not have considered.


Jada
(Platinum)
01/05/08 07:35 AM
69.115.64.195
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

[quote]Where do you live Jada? Laguna Beach? The numbers are the numbers. It doesn't cost $100,000 a year to raise a child but I suppose people like you won't be happy unless your life is completely paid for by others. [/quote]

Like I said before, parents who make $500,000 a year are going to spend more on raising a child than a parent who makes $40,000 a year.

No, I don't live in CA at all. But I do live in a high cost of living state. BTW, I make more at my job than my ex pays in child support. My ex is paying his share of the support for the kids.

Which will go down when they don't need childcare anymore.


Samsung
(Platinum)
01/05/08 07:44 AM
71.214.147.197
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

With your spreadsheet, are you going by actual cash outlay, or figuring a percentage for rent, utilities, etc.?

overwhelmed
(Platinum)
01/05/08 09:34 AM
69.243.200.4
Re: A proposed solution to a diffucult problem

Since I would definitely not live in this house if I didn't have the kids I used the cost of an apartment where I would likely choose ($350 mo less than my house payment). I used 10% of electricity and water for each child (which is probably not enough on electricity because I wouldn't be heating/cooling this big house) I also had to use a percentage on groceries and I again used 10% (which is probably not enough since 1 is a teenage boy).

The rest was actual cost. I didn't assign them any cost on things I would have with or without them (cable, internet, etc.)

I also didn't include incidentals like field trips, haircuts, increased gas for my car for being a taxi service, school projects, class ring, yearbooks, upkeep on this house, etc.

I'm NOT complaining about what it costs to raise my kids. I just did the spreadsheet in case their dad ever asked for an accounting. It's on my work computer and I don't remember exactly how much the difference was but I do know that the court estimate was too low.

And before you say anything about moving to a cheaper house, I would love to do that but this is the only home my kids have ever known and it was important to them to remain here for now, especially since my son is in the 11th grade. A 3BR appartment would run about the same in rent in this area so we would have to move to another county to see any difference in rent/mortgage, which would not be in his best interest to uproot him in the last two years of high school.



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