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Does CS cover "Christmas expenses"? I buy gifts and give money directly to my children at Christmas, but my ex is demanding I give her and additional $300 per child for "santa" presents. |
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Tell her to pound sand up her ass. |
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Tell her that Santa arrives at your house with your money, and her hous ewith her money, and if she's not saved up enough over the year from teh child support, you hope she'll be able to make it up for herself otherwise, because she no longer gets to pretend to be generous with the kids on your dime. That's for YOUR generousity to decide how to spend, and watch the kids' reactions as they open the gifts you pay for! |
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I'd skip the sermons and insults and just politely tell her, "No". |
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*giggle*giggle* *giggle* That's all I can say! |
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[quote]Does CS cover "Christmas expenses"? I buy gifts and give money directly to my children at Christmas, but my ex is demanding I give her and additional $300 per child for "santa" presents. [/quote] Well, I would tell her that unless it is in the court order, you aren't giving it to her. And if she takes you to court, I don't think a judge will award it to her. How much money she chooses to spend on gifts for the kids is up to her and either comes from her earnings or the child support. And how much money you decide to spend on the kids for gifts is entirely up to you. |
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Tell her that Santa already came 12 times this year. |
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My suggestion would be that she have christmas at her house, and you have christmas at your house. That way you each are responsible for your own christmas with the kids. And if the kids are still young enough to belive in Santa, they can come over to your house and you just tell them that Santa came to your house too....If she doesn't go for that, she is just trying to get money out of you. Or, instead of giving her money, tell her to give you a list of their wishes and you will get what you can afford or split the list in half. It's all about compromise. |
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Maybe you should suggest that she should see if Disneyland needs more characters for their Fantasyland. $300 per child for "santa" gifts? OMG! I didn't spend $300 per child all combined. Santa gifts were a less expesnive item that they were allowed to open before the rest of the family was up and awake, along with their stocking. The high priced items were from us. I have never heard of such nonsense. Simple answer Hell No! $300 per child for "santa" gifts...gmao here! |
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Ha Ha - great reponses! So many to choose from. Thanks all. |
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[quote]Tell her that Santa already came 12 times this year.[/quote] This is such a bitter response but had to giggle. Cute, Sam. ;) I would love to be a fly on the wall if the OP really does tell her that. LOL! I agree with the others... pound sand.... fantasyland.... etc etc. |
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huh! i WISH! (lol...sorryy...just saying!) i mean who WOULDNT want someone to give us all 300$ for our kids for Christmas?! i have to say. IF i could trick someone into this id be half tempted myself. as it is, ive budgeted christmas in since february. it takes a LOT of discipline to do that and there is NO 300Dollars per kid in that budget! How DO you all budget your holiday stuff. this should be a separate thread i guess. taryn |
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For me growing up .... my mom paid for XMAS and BDAY at her place, my father at his. $$ wise, I usually came out ahead at my dad's, but my mom usually got me what I truly wanted. It is my understanding that CS does not cover gifts. CS is about day to day life. |
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[quote] It is my understanding that CS does not cover gifts. CS is about day to day life. [/quote] not even CLOSE! that's why it's hard at first for me. since im revamping a career i havent used as a SAHM for years im still in the school phase. so. no income but the c/s. and it only covers the basics. a birthday and christmas within a month is killer! once i have my career even mildly started again ill feel a lot better. (no one freak out im just EXPLAINING not asking for More!) But STILL if a judge WOULD order 300$ per kid for christmas, that would rock! taryn. |
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=========================================================== Tell her to pound sand up her ass. =========================================================== Wait a minute! This is for THE CHILDREN! Is there anyone alive who actually believes that there is a judge, juror or politician in this country (of weak-minded, liberal fools who believe that money grows on trees) who would even CONSIDER depriving them of anything that all children normally get, and which deprivation could "emotionally scar them for life"? This being the case, the man might as well cave now and make it easy on himself, instead of "forcing" his wife into court again and probably even having to pay her legal fees! |
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Attitudes like yours are what make more men make more mistakes in giving more than the law would require, than any inappropriate actions that I've ever seen coming from court. I've told you before & I'll say it again, from listening to people like you, my husband's ex thought she was going to be a millionaire after the divorce, and my husband was pretty sure of the same thing. BECAUSE they'd listened to people like you rather than going to get the real story from a lawyer, my husband positioned himself in a way that made it impossible to get the right thing to happen with the kids in his divorce... and his ex thought she was golden, could do anything, treat him like a slave if she wanted, and she'd not have to worry because she had it made. TRUTH was much different, and when the law actually DID finally have it's say, she got about 1/4 of what BOTH of them thought that she'd be getting... AND EVEN THAT is more than the law would have required if my husband hadn't been in such a poor negotiating position at the outset. As long as you predict doom & tell men to give it up, putting everyone in the mindset that a lazy woman can get it all and a hard working man will be victimized by the system, you're certainly setting it up so that this DOES happen. STOP! |
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[quote]huh! i WISH! (lol...sorryy...just saying!) i mean who WOULDNT want someone to give us all 300$ for our kids for Christmas?! i have to say. IF i could trick someone into this id be half tempted myself. as it is, ive budgeted christmas in since february. it takes a LOT of discipline to do that and there is NO 300Dollars per kid in that budget! How DO you all budget your holiday stuff. this should be a separate thread i guess. taryn [/quote] I buy when things are on sale. One thing at a time and hide it. I am usually done by November. Did I mention that I hate shopping during the holday season? Buying a little at a time also helps make it easier on the budget. |
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[quote]=========================================================== Tell her to pound sand up her ass. =========================================================== Wait a minute! This is for THE CHILDREN! Is there anyone alive who actually believes that there is a judge, juror or politician in this country (of weak-minded, liberal fools who believe that money grows on trees) who would even CONSIDER depriving them of anything that all children normally get, and which deprivation could "emotionally scar them for life"? This being the case, the man might as well cave now and make it easy on himself, instead of "forcing" his wife into court again and probably even having to pay her legal fees! [/quote] YOu really are clueless. If the mother takes it court, she is going to be told that she isn't entitled to that money and will probably end up paying his legal fees. Gifts are just that, gifts. Voluntarily given at what you want to spend, not what someone else wants to spend. |
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=========================================================== Gifts are just that, gifts. Voluntarily given at what you want to spend, not what someone else wants to spend. =========================================================== Then what is the one-half of a man's lifetime accumulated assets ordered "given" to his wife in a divorce--under no-fault divorce law-- even if he can prove she did nothing to deserve ANYTHING?? If this is not a gift, is it a settlement ordered in satisfaction of a contractual obligation? If so, where is the contract which calls for such liquidated damages? Could it be, rather, punitive action taken by the courr for some tort or other mistreatment of his spouse? If so, what tort or what mistreament? Oh yes, Jada, a court can order you to "voluntarily" make a gift to your children or your spouse, they do so regularly, and are regularly highly praised for it (by simpletons)! |
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[quote]=========================================================== Gifts are just that, gifts. Voluntarily given at what you want to spend, not what someone else wants to spend. =========================================================== Then what is the one-half of a man's lifetime accumulated assets ordered "given" to his wife in a divorce--under no-fault divorce law-- even if he can prove she did nothing to deserve ANYTHING?? If this is not a gift, is it a settlement ordered in satisfaction of a contractual obligation? If so, where is the contract which calls for such liquidated damages? Could it be, rather, punitive action taken by the courr for some tort or other mistreatment of his spouse? If so, what tort or what mistreament? Oh yes, Jada, a court can order you to "voluntarily" make a gift to your children or your spouse, they do so regularly, and are regularly highly praised for it (by simpletons)! [/quote] Division of marital property. BTW, the only assets that are divided between the two owners are the assets that were acquired during the marriage. Unless one or both parties co-mingled premarital assets. The only simpleton here is, well, you. |
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=========================================================== BTW, the only assets that are divided between the two owners are the assets that were acquired during the marriage. Unless one or both parties co-mingled premarital assets. =========================================================== I never accused you of being a simpleton. Unfortunately you, like most people today, appear incapable of considering or weighing more than one aspect of a question at a time. When these individuals are mentally addressing one issue (the supposed fact that only assets acquired during a marriage are "marital assets") they cannot appreciate that the question of upon whom lies the BURDEN OF PROOF for demonstrating that assets are either marital or seperate and the fact that the assumption of a court in this regard, absent any such demonstration, are BOTH PARAMOUNT. In most states the assumption of a court (at least when the assets in quesion are under control of the man) is that they are MARITAL assets (community property), and the man must PROVE this NOT to be the case, if he wants his seperate property. This is what I meant by my question, "what if he lost the records"? In Texas, the standard of proof required in this case is a much higher one than is normally true in civil law. What all of this really means is that the most basic principle of Western law, that a person is considered "innocent until proven guilty" is turned upside down in divorces and, by assuming that all assets are community property before a hearing even starts, divorce courts are all turned into "kangaroo courts"--with all of this being done, in nearly all cases, to the advantage of the woman and to the disadvantage of the man. Add to the above the vast, confused maze of competing statutes, case law and (this is the one I really like) "local judicial custom" and what you are left with is nothing short of a scam which the mafia would envy, consisting of tyranny posing as law, with no way to fight it, and with the same gangsters--whether in their roles as legislators, judges, lawyers or gold diggers, ALWAYS profiting, no matter what a man does, and at his exclusive expense. If he doesn't do anything, and rejects any participation in the entire crooked scheme, then they will REALLY screw him! His only salvation, assuming he was foolish enough to get married in the first place, is to do everything he can to prevent his wife filing until he has had TIME to properly arrange his affairs, protect his assets, and ensure that his traceable income is LESS than the minimum he needs to live on! Disclaimer: Not legal advice |
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I am capable of understanding what marital property consists of. Unlike you. |
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In your case jbar, a woman married to you would not deserve half... she would deserve 90%, my God the woman must be a saint! Just Kidding. ;) Seriously though, I am assuming you and all of the other people entering into a marriage (except for those wise enough to get a prenup)know from the moment you say "I do", you share your lives, home, children, bed, etc. etc. We all know and expect this going into a marriage. After you are married, in essence you are one (this is what marriage is about). Some people contribute more financially, some contribute in other ways such as taking care of the children etc. When the marriage contract is broken, you cannot put a "price" on who paid for what, you were a team. |
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I agree...Jbar's ex earned every dime she got just to put up with him.... |
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"But STILL if a judge WOULD order 300$ per kid for christmas, that would rock!" If ordered to be paid to me, I'd cut a check back to my ex for the full amount. I couldn't take something I didn't earn, and I knew was outragously ordered...it feels too much like theft, even if it were legal. |
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============================================================== After you are married, in essence you are one (this is what marriage is about). Some people contribute more financially, some contribute in other ways such as taking care of the children etc. ============================================================== Or, at least, we'd like to think so. The last year of my marriage to my first wife was pure h*ll. She'd go out 6 days a week to party with her friends. Her days were mostly filled by sleeping to get ready to party for the next evening. Her only "contribution" during that time was spending more of MY money on booze, cover charges, babysitter money, etc. |
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[quote] Seriously though, I am assuming you and all of the other people entering into a marriage (except for those wise enough to get a prenup)know from the moment you say "I do", you share your lives, home, children, bed, etc. etc. We all know and expect this going into a marriage. After you are married, in essence you are one (this is what marriage is about). Some people contribute more financially, some contribute in other ways such as taking care of the children etc. When the marriage contract is broken, you cannot put a "price" on who paid for what, you were a team. [/quote] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, most people don't really know how much is involved in getting out of a marriage at the beginning. How or why would they? Information about divorce is available, but who looks for that at that time in your life? And to say you cannot put a price on who paid for what is absurd. The price is half of everything the working spouse earned, and saved, plus half of what that spouse brought into the marriage, plus money for the future, until the useless spouse gets remarried and becomes someone else's leech. |
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The price is half Lovechild. That was my point. So lovechild, you contribute nothing to the marriage unless you bring in assets and a paycheck? Example: What if I bring nothing into the marriage and do not have a college education? I was brn poor and my family has nothing. But, I marry a man right after college. I stay with him during the rough times and have children. I am a good wife. I clean, cook meals for my family daily, do most of the child rearing including doctors appointments, etc. I pay the household bills, go grocery shopping and do household repairs such as painting and upkeep such as gardening. I do the laundry and press my husband's shirts before work. I help the kids with their homework, I research and advise my husband on retirement plans. I make sure I keep myself healthy and make and effort to keep our sex life satisfying. My husband's elderly mother moves in and I also care for her. I fill prescriptions and wash her clothes and cook her meals. Our children get older and I decide to get a part time job. Husband has an affair and says he wants a divorce. The kids are over 18 and in college. Are you suggesting that I get nothing? Just checking. |
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=========================================================== ...I marry a man right after college. I stay with him during the rough times and have children. I am a good wife. ... Husband has an affair and says he wants a divorce. The kids are over 18 and in college. Are you suggesting that I get nothing? =========================================================== Whether it is your husband who wants a divorce or yourself, AS LONG AS NO-FAULT DIVORCE IS THE LAW no damages will be available for "misconduct". This means that, as a practical matter, the reason for the divorce is essentially irrelevant. Therefore we are left with the question of whether you should get a certain "settlement" from your husband, of assets under his control, FOR NO OTHER REASON BUT THE FACT THAT YOU WERE MARRIED TO HIM. This contention is patently absurd, as the same "argument" would apply even if you had been the worst wife and mother in the world, making your husband's life miserable and causing him to be unable to acquire as much wealth in the first place. Although in the vast maze of confusing, contradictory law and argument in divorces there exists some theory and case law which maintain that all factors, including those you mentioned, should be considered in determining any "settlement", this is just another possibility among many--and a long shot at that. I argue therefore that the only just way to look at this question is to consider that, under a no-fault system of divorce, it is encumbent upon each married party to either accept whatever they are presently and on a daily basis getting out of the marriage, with no guarantees that they will ever get more, or to divorce their spouse if they are not happy and cannot convince the other party to arrange for them to receive whatever they consider lacking. One method of making such arrangements would be a seperate, civil (post-nuptial) contract. As an adult you cannot have your cake and eat it too, nor can you complain and caterwaul in the casino manager's office about how unfair it is that you tapped out and demand a consolation prize. Life doesn't work like that and neither should law. If you take chances in the hope of great rewards and you lose--and also received little or nothing in the process--then you have no one but yourself to blame. In the situation you described, my judgement would be that you have ALREADY gotten everything you deserved from the man and ever will deserve, in the form of the support and security you enjoyed during the marriage. Like the gambler who lost all of her money in the casino you also received the mental and emotional joy and satisfaction of moving, hopefully, toward the aforementioned great rewards--a not inconsequential benefit in itself, even if these rewards were never fully realized. You apparently never complained DURING the marriage, while simultaneously enjoying NO GUARANTEES OR ASSURANCES FROM ANYONE that you would ever receive anything beyond this! As long as the law refuses to consider awarding you damages for the adultery, why should your complaints that you should now receive anything beyond what you already have be credible? To view this question in any other manner would mean the authorization of the same legalized theft against men committed daily by courts in this country, in which gold diggers are regularly made wealthy by being awarded a fortune from men whom they divorce under "no-fault" law, after doing virtually nothing but waiting for the man to work enough to generate sufficient wealth for the woman and her greedy lawyers to make their move. Your argument cannot be seperated from an argument in favor of such vileness, and will NEVER wash with any thinking, honest person! |
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============================================================= But, I marry a man right after college. I stay with him during the rough times and have children. I am a good wife. I clean, cook meals for my family daily, do most of the child rearing including doctors appointments, etc. I pay the household bills, go grocery shopping and do household repairs such as painting and upkeep such as gardening. I do the laundry and press my husband's shirts before work. I help the kids with their homework, I research and advise my husband on retirement plans. I make sure I keep myself healthy and make and effort to keep our sex life satisfying. My husband's elderly mother moves in and I also care for her. I fill prescriptions and wash her clothes and cook her meals. Our children get older and I decide to get a part time job. Husband has an affair and says he wants a divorce. The kids are over 18 and in college. Are you suggesting that I get nothing? ============================================================= I'd suggest your probably 0.001% of the population - if not rarer. However, yes, I think you'd be EXACTLY what the system is set up for NOW. IOW, you'd get AT LEAST half of all the marital assets. You'd get a fat alimony check each month. Etc. |
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Ok, so will you respond to the posts after yours Momma, or can you not think of an answer. And what about the less than ideal wife, who contributes nothing, no laundry, no financial planning help, no household cleaning, demanding to be taken out for meals, demanding maids, gardeners, new cars, vacations, then has an affair herself. Are you suggesting she deserves something? |
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I guess we have to agree to disagree. My example was a hypothetical, that situation is NOT mine, just to clarify. There are always some bad apples, but if you think the courts are bogged down now, could you imagine if every marriage had to be put under a microscope every divorce to see who gets what? In regard to property division, I believe the courts have it right. And you can't tell me that everyone going into marriage today KNOWS that their spouse will get half should they divorce. They do know that. Now alimony, child support and custody I believe are sometimes unfair and biased. We can agree on that. The moral of the story? DON'T GET MARRIED! ;) |
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=========================================================== There are always some bad apples, but if you think the courts are bogged down now, could you imagine if every marriage had to be put under a microscope every divorce to see who gets what? =========================================================== This is why attempting to weigh all factors in a marriage, to detemine "who gets what" can never work, in spite of case law allowing it. The complexity of such an undertaking means that all this really does is throw law away and replace it with the subjective REACTION of a judge in a given case--the worst thing imaginable, as two different judges could regularly give essentially opposite rulings in essentially the same case! What an obscene, tyrannical farce! Again, the only sensible and just approach to the property question in divorce is to allow everyone to keep whatever they already have, by title or possession, UNLESS they can PROVE that the assets should be divided in some way or transferred to the other party. Any work or other contribution made, one party to the other, must be considered a bona-fide gift--for all time--unless a contract providing otherwise can be produced. As I have previously said, the existence of an "implied partnership" can be recognized if it can be proven that both parties actively worked together in a real business, and the residual assets of the business can be traced! If either party doesn't like this situation they can, at any time, DEMAND A POST NUPTIAL CONTRACT CORRECTING THE SITUATION OR DIVORCE THEIR SPOUSE!! Nuff said! |
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I don't have a problem with asset division for the most part. I do have a problem with custody dicisions. I think that cheaters should become the NCP by default, as they have already shown they will put their own interests before their children...unless someone can show me how having sex with the neighbor is beneficial to the kids. |
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I agree with that Samsung. And the property division is not that bad, but the way the courts extract vaginamony and CS is loony. Why do I have to make sure the money is taken out of each check, but she doesn't have to put it into a seperate account in the kids names? Why do I have to pay a processing fee to have it taken out? Why doesn't the fee just get taken out of the money I'm paying? Why do I have to pay for my kids when they are with her in the first place? Don't twist my words anybody, I want to support my kids, but CS is for time that I don't have them with me. WTF My ex got over a half mil. And a lot for monthly SS. That should be enough for HER to buy the kids things with. |
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[quote]I don't have a problem with asset division for the most part. I do have a problem with custody dicisions. I think that cheaters should become the NCP by default, as they have already shown they will put their own interests before their children...unless someone can show me how having sex with the neighbor is beneficial to the kids. [/quote] i hear you! sigh.... |
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[quote]Does CS cover "Christmas expenses"? I buy gifts and give money directly to my children at Christmas, but my ex is demanding I give her and additional $300 per child for "santa" presents. [/quote] Okay, so back to the Christmas thing! Why would anyone think that santas presents should be financed by anyone but the person giving them? Even my dirty b@stard ex and I agree on the present aspect. We each buy what we feel appropriate and spend what we feel appropriate. I have my kids write out a Christmas/Birthday wish list, I share with my ex what they are asking for and tell him what I am purchasing so there are no doubles. I make suggestions if he still doesn't have any clue...and I give them the presents that are from me and he gives the one from himself. As far as amounts go...Birthdays - I generally spend about $75. Christmas - I get a little crazy since I was not allowed to celebrate for several years and probably spend about $250 each. Their dad generally spends $40-50 at birthdays and about $100 for Christmas presents. |