| What will I lose |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/08/08 09:03 AM |
| 12.76.67.236 |
guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
|
My wife's been disabled more than 1/2 our marriage. Basically i guess it's just a pain all through her body and her foot. I cant tell you what is wrong, no one knows. But I've taken her to many doctors near and far and she wont get better. But what kills me is her poor attitude and unwillingness to even try things. Until recently i did 100% of everything but now that i said i may not want to stay married, she does some things like call the DR for prescriptions and maybe empties the dishwasher. What really gets me is that when she is sleeping she gets all pissy that i may want to go out and have lunch etc with a friend. I take care of her at home but she resents my able bodiedness i guess. I also feel if she can do what she is doing now, why didnt she do it all these years when she was admittedly in better health? So makes me wonder if ive been a sucker.
Basically i feel bad for her and pity her. I do wonder where she will wind up if i leave. She cannot stay here in this house alone, it's logistically impossible as she is totally dependent on someone and there is literally no one around to help her.
So what keeps me here is the pity, the guilt and the likelihood of paying permanent alimony. But i'm to the point where im ready to take a dip and ask what she would want if we split. Obviously this will really upset her and i dont know the outcome. But i feel that i need to know where i stand and this is the only way to do it. I'm pretty sure there is no way she will ever voluntarily leave here. I do too much for her and i hate to say it like this but if i was really mean, i could pretty much do anything i wanted here and i dont think she would leave. I treat her too well.
So my feeling is i dont have the right reasons to stay here but yet i feel bad about leaving her all helpless.
| HardKnox |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/08/08 09:26 AM |
| 65.165.5.70 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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This is a horrible situation to be in. I was in a similar situation, except in my case the Xs disability was primarily, but not exclusively, psychiatric. I can tell you that I hung on out of guilt and pity and I probably even got married in the first place out of guilt and pity and the desire to "help someone in need". I can also tell you this for sure.
It doesn't work.
In time, your pity will turn to resentment. It might even turn into anger. It will lead to your own deterioration and self-destruction. And I'm going to tell you something right here and now that might make every person on this forum hate my guts and I don't care.
Get out. Get out and save yourself while you still can.
You might find out what a cold-hearted [censored] you can become once the cloud of the relationship has been lifted. I know it surprises me how very little I actually care about what happens to my X. I believe she will ultimately become one of the "bag-ladies" with $350K in the bank (my retirement savings). I hung on FOUR YEARS TOO LONG. Four WASTED YEARS.
I finally had no more years to waste.
| golightly |
| (Gold) |
| 01/08/08 05:46 PM |
| 70.58.132.9 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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Guilt and pity are not reasons to stay.
If she is not willing to make an attempt at a joyous and prodcutive (within her limitations) life, then she has broken part of the vows she made to you. (I know most people don't promise to try to maintain a happy outlook on life, and share the domestic burden explicitly, but I like to think it's implicit in the "marriage contract"). I know upholding a commitment is important, but there are times when it is appropriate to break said commitment.
Yes, you may be financialy responsible for her for a long period, but so what. Is any price truly worth your soul? Besides, your leaving may be the biggest favor to her in a strange way - might be the catalyst she needs to get a life. Or to getting in touch with long lost family members, or ....
Good Luck
| MommaMia |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/09/08 10:51 AM |
| 68.204.153.220 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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I agree. Get out now. I also stayed longer out of guilt and pity.
Listen. Take the next step and move forward. I remember a similar post from you a while back. Time is moving forward but your life is not. See a lawyer, talk with your ex about seriously splitting up, don't give her false hope and string her along. It is best to rip it off like a band-aid because she will only make you feel more pity for her.
Good luck.
| What will I lose |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/09/08 01:13 PM |
| 12.76.68.109 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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Yes i'm definitely not moving forward. Im very stuck. I guess it is false hope as i treat her mostly well. though obviously i've been snippy here or there but still wait on her and do all around the house. She's given me a half hearted statement she will try to quit smoking but i told her a long time ago i'm not cleaning the living room until you do. So 11 years of smoke on the walls. Nice reminder. This is just a small part of the problem but i do figure if she doesnt want to take care of herself and try to get better (all doctors said and she agrees that she cant heal while she is a diabetic smoker), why should i care?
Unfortunately i dont think i can get over worrying about where she will end up. No way can we/I afford a home for her and i doubt she would go anyway.
The lawyer told me i can pretty much count on permanent alimony but i hope i can keep the amount down or negotiate more pension away or something.
can i buy life insurance on her if we are divorced? She always says her family dies young and I think i read on another board that you can somehow insure your ex legally.
| What will I lose |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/09/08 07:16 PM |
| 208.101.147.36 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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I forgot to mention one thing. She forgets when it's time to put on her pain patches. Disregarding all other issues that is the one i cannot understand. If you are in level 8 pain 100% of the time wouldnt you anticipate when you can put on your next patch?
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/10/08 02:30 AM |
| 12.74.233.29 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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I know that some may say that you married her "for better or worse" and that you have an obligation to her--and they have a point. Others, like the above posters, say you have a right to a life. I think the correct approach is to be frank with her and to explain that, while you love her, the only thing that would permit you to live as a man again would be for her to receive the aid she needs from others, as it is too depressing to you, disconcerting, and uses just too much of your time.
It is one thing when someone files a no-fault divorce because they have met another person and therefore wants to "ditch" a perfectly healthy mate. It is another thing when they want out of a marriage to avoid a lifetime of slavery to someone as a provider of support, nursing and care--in return for basically nothing. The solution may lay in the grounds provided for divorce by state law for situations like yours, which may be much kinder to you than normal "no-fault" grounds are in regard to alimony. In any case, your alimony should be no greater than that which would have been "minimal" if she were not disabled which, if she worked before her disability developed, may be virtually zero. If this turns out to be true, then Social Security should take care of her care thru early medicare if she has any significant assets after the divorce, and SSI should do it if she does not have assets. You have to find a very good lawyer, who is familiar both with family law and Social Security regs.
| What will I lose |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/10/08 03:32 PM |
| 12.76.67.162 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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[quote]
It is one thing when someone files a no-fault divorce because they have met another person and therefore wants to "ditch" a perfectly healthy mate. It is another thing when they want out of a marriage to avoid a lifetime of slavery to someone as a provider of support, nursing and care--in return for basically nothing. The solution may lay in the grounds provided for divorce by state law for situations like yours, which may be much kinder to you than normal "no-fault" grounds are in regard to alimony. In any case, your alimony should be no greater than that which would have been "minimal" if she were not disabled which, if she worked before her disability developed, may be virtually zero. If this turns out to be true, then Social Security should take care of her care thru early medicare if she has any significant assets after the divorce, and SSI should do it if she does not have assets. You have to find a very good lawyer, who is familiar both with family law and Social Security regs. [/quote]
she has virtually zero assets to her sole name. certainly it's less than 10K in retirement and other investments. Then there is splitting up a lump sum award but even if she gets that all it's only 20K.
YOU are the first person I remember saying anything to me about SSI. (apologies if someone else did). I totally forgot she was denied because my income was too high but did get SSD . I wonder if i can figure out how much her SSI would have been or find the 5 year old letter lol. She gets like 775 now in SSD. Is that any indicator of SSI and what that would be?
Your info about SSI has given me the hope i've needed not to come out of this much poorer than the 1K alimony the atty i saw said i'd owe at a minimum. We loved the soc sec atty we had for the first round of appeals but sounds like if she has no income she would be automatically approved for SSI!
you made my day
I'm not 'happy' about the divorce i assure you but i thought she would be destitute and i felt bad and this gives me hope i can leave her in good conscience
| mistake#2 |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/10/08 10:31 PM |
| 71.100.164.132 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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Why would you ask about getting life insurance on her?
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/11/08 08:26 PM |
| 68.88.198.2 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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Glad if I have helped. If there is still the problem of lifetime alimony, even given the circumstances, then I would consider moving to a state with no alimony or very limited alimony available. In Texas the maximum term of alimony is three years, although there is an exception to this if the alimony is ordered based on disability:
http://www.houstondivorce.com/post-divorce-alimony.html
The disability must be proven by a documented, sincere job hunt, which was fruitless. If she can work, at even a part-time job, Social Security might permit her the additional income and the total may mean she would not qualify for alimony. Check with them.
Ideally you could find an even better jurisdiction for this purpose than Texas, but this example shows that there is a variation in state laws that you could use to your advantage. Given the fall of the dollar, establishing foreign residency could even be considered, even if you were paid in local currency. Surely you could arrange to suddenly find yourself offered that "dream job" (at least that is what you refer to it as being with your wife) in such a jurisdiction. After establishing residency, you could file for divorce!
| Jada |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/12/08 12:10 AM |
| 69.115.64.195 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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In order for Texas to have jurisdiction, residency has to be established first. And even then, Texas still may not end up with jurisdiction.
And if she files in the original state before residency has been established or a court determines that he was court shopping (which is what you suggested), then the original state has jurisdiction.
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/12/08 02:21 AM |
| 12.74.232.183 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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He would have to move to the new, more favorable jurisdiction, with his wife and for a good reason (a better job, climate, etc,) and then file after a decent period has expired following establishment of residency. He never mentioned any possibility that she would be the party to file. Court shopping is a term which refers to efforts to get a particular judge, venue in a court with a particular racial mix in a potential jury, etc., and is illegal. Being assigned a particular court, at random, as a result of having residency in a particular town is not court shopping and is legal.
If he files divorce and she wanted long term alimony, in Texas, she would have to convince the Texas family law court that she is disabled, a different task than convincing Social Security of this. The Texas Family court could determine that she is able to work, and that would be the end of the alimony, although her SSD or SSI could continue, as they derive from federal rules. If the local court rules that the woman cannot work then he may have to pay alimony but, of course, this alimony will be much less than would have been the case without the contribution of Soc. Sec. to her total living costs. I personally doubt if she would be willing to make a "sincere job search" as required by the Texas statute, before any possibility could be created for her to be ruled "disabled" for purposes of establishing long-term alimony.
Disclaimer: Not legal advice
| Jada |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/12/08 09:35 AM |
| 69.115.64.195 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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If his wife doesn't move, then it isn't going to work.
And you are assuming that she will move. She may not.
Besides, he has a life where he is now. Not everyone is as unethical as you are and out to screw their spouse.
| lilliy |
| (New) |
| 01/12/08 03:56 PM |
| 24.182.167.242 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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New to the board: Read your message,does she have fiber-miagley(sp) think I missed spelled that or do's she have Lupas, or has she been checked for MS? I have MS and my legs hurt 24-7.
I guess if she wanted to work or help out she would everone handles pain different. I work 25-30 week and belive me it kills me some times but the thought of just sittng around drives me even more crazy> Sorry I cant help out any more but if you are living at home to help her your not.
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/13/08 02:13 AM |
| 12.73.70.139 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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===========================================================
If his wife doesn't move, then it isn't going to work.
And you are assuming that she will move. She may not.
===========================================================
Well, you know, I'm not really all that sure that the wife would have to move as well. Don't women still move to Vegas, establish residency, then divorce their husbands all the time? Aren't the community property and alimony decisions thus delivered prompty "removed", for brutal enforcement, to the state where the man resides and has property? Perhaps if he could take an extended "business trip" here--and send her flowers, phone calls, etc., during this time this would do the trick. By the time she got served, it would be too late for her to initiate the less male-favorable action in her home state, and the decision of the Texas court, with regard to alimony, would prevail.
Of course, he would also have her "over a barrel" in this sense, as unless she could get venue in her home state she would have to come to Texas, or hire a Texas attorney to represent her. The important thing would be to avoid any possible charges of "desertion" by taking care of her, and staying in contact, while getting evidence (recorded phone calls?) that the extended trip was WITH HER PERMISSION and remaining in Texas was purely for bona fide purposes of economic opportunity, etc.*
*Or even a vacation. If women can do it this way in Vegas, why not men in Texas (SI, hay muchas chicas bonitas aqui en la frontera Mexicana!)?
Disclaimer: Not legal advice
| Jada |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/13/08 07:46 AM |
| 69.115.64.195 |
|
Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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[quote]===========================================================
If his wife doesn't move, then it isn't going to work.
And you are assuming that she will move. She may not.
===========================================================
Well, you know, I'm not really all that sure that the wife would have to move as well. [/quote]
All she has to do is file for divorce in her state before he establishes residency. Then not only will he be paying alimony, he will have to pay the transportation costs.
And if he manages to file before she does, after establishing residency, all she has to do is file in her state and file a motion in his state to dismiss as Texas does not have jurisdiction.
Considering that the state they are currently in is where they have legal residence and he moved to Texas knowing that he was going to get a divorce, it will be dismissed. Judges don't like it when you court shop for the court that will be more favorable to you.
| What will I lose |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/13/08 09:56 AM |
| 208.101.147.36 |
|
Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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I do appreciates the efforts but i'm not moving out of my house, much less the state. But thanks for trying!
----
she has been told she has soft tissue injury, fibro and rsd. Nothing is provable but she is on SSD but not SSI because i make money of course. I guess she will get SSI if we are divorced though and that decreases alimony from what i've understood.
Her smoking is really killing me lately and as i feel enough guilt about things, her continual smoking lessens it. Every doctor has said a smoking diabetic has no chance at healing unless they stop smoking. So i figure if she doesnt care about her health, my health, our cats health, why should i worry about trying to get her help when i did for the past 7 years? She wants to start a new round of doctors and i'm fed up enough that i'm gonna say that i dont think it's productive, since it hasnt been in the past, she still smokes and i'm tired of sitting in 2 hour appts and listening to all that crap. Also i'm quite tired of the continual moaning etc at home. I guess it's a feeling of helplessness but i cant deal anymore. Plus i do all the housework and im tired of being (as someone else put it) a slave with no chance for a return of anything. It's all one way here.
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/13/08 07:29 PM |
| 69.148.90.177 |
|
Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
|
==========================================================
And if he manages to file before she does, after establishing residency, all she has to do is file in her state and file a motion in his state to dismiss as Texas does not have jurisdiction.
Considering that the state they are currently in is where they have legal residence and he moved to Texas knowing that he was going to get a divorce, it will be dismissed. Judges don't like it when you court shop for the court that will be more favorable to you
===========================================================
Jada, what have you been smoking? If this were true, the entire Nevada divorce industry would be shut down.
"What..", given her health, it may be hard to get life insurance but I hope you are getting all the Soc. Sec., IRS or state benefits available to the "primary caretaker of a disabled person". Also, you are entitled to have a visiting nurse come to assist her for a limited number of hours weekly.
| mistake#2 |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/13/08 08:32 PM |
| 71.100.164.132 |
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Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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What will I lose...you never answered my question about why you were asking about life insurance.
Do you have children together?
I'd be happy to give you info on her eligibility and how it works...
| What will I lose |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/13/08 09:05 PM |
| 208.101.147.36 |
|
Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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i read on one divorce site about recovery of alimony if someone dies.
so if she gets 775 SSD what will SSI be? And i know there will be med part b premiums too now i guess.
-------
i had no idea with my income i could get any state aid...and she wont call for anyone to come help her.
| What will I lose |
| (Platinum) |
| 01/14/08 07:58 PM |
| 208.101.147.36 |
|
Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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[quote]What will I lose...you never answered my question about why you were asking about life insurance.
Do you have children together?
I'd be happy to give you info on her eligibility and how it works... [/quote]
i dont know about how legit this site is but here is what i found
http://www.divorcedirtytricks.com/alimony.htm
If you are to be paying alimony, you can keep life insurance on your ex so that you can recoup any alimony payments you have made over the years upon their death. This also works in the opposite method as well, if you are receiving alimony, having life insurance on the ex that pays you alimony will allow you to replace the money that they would have paid you if they happen to die.
-----------------
so it sounds somewhat legal but i dont know if it is smart to do or not
oh no kids here either
| What will I lose |
| (Platinum) |
| 05/07/08 09:48 AM |
| 12.76.68.69 |
|
Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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[quote]Guilt and pity are not reasons to stay.
If she is not willing to make an attempt at a joyous and prodcutive (within her limitations) life, then she has broken part of the vows she made to you. [/quote]
last night she brought up about vows again. I said well if i was such a bad hubby, closing you out of my feelings, being depressed, not encouraging you, being mean etc...why do you want to stay. She said because of her vow in good times and in bad. NOw i wasnt smart enough at the time to say what if i started drinking and hitting you would you stay? but i wondered what she would say now.
She did say that i am condemning her to a bad life (back with her family and says no one will want her in a wheelchair) but i dont think that is a reason to stay but couldnt tell her that because i think its mean.
i did say her depression and unwillingness to try to get better is what got me and even if i was totally unsupportive, she should wanna get better for herself! So yes i feel guilty for condemning her to a sucky life but is that guilt a reason to stay? my therapy dude says no and so do i. She says she will miss me and knows when she leaves she will never see me again and that really bugs her. She said she just wants to make sure i'm happy after she leaves.
| What will I lose |
| (Platinum) |
| 05/30/08 09:32 AM |
| 12.76.73.63 |
|
Re: guilt and pity? reasons to stay?
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geez she's doing a good job lately at treating me well and acting nice. Making me feel real bad about sentencing her to her life of doom. Makes the shots about living in a crappy mobile home and she will have nothing since has to leave most stuff here. Well is it my fault she cant take more even if it was hers?