| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/05/08 03:21 PM |
| 68.88.199.0 |
Helping STBX file for default divorce
|
Does anyone here know if there would be any problem in "coaching" my wife to file pro-se "against" me with the object of my ignoring all official communication from her and from the court, thereby obtaining a "no-fault" default divorce?
This would result in both parties retaining whatever they presently have by title or possession, no attorneys being involved, and NO NECESSITY FOR ME TO LIST MY ASSETS ANYWHERE. My state is Texas.
| Jada |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/05/08 03:47 PM |
| 69.115.64.195 |
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Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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Quote:
Does anyone here know if there would be any problem in "coaching" my wife to file pro-se "against" me with the object of my ignoring all official communication from her and from the court, thereby obtaining a "no-fault" default divorce?
This would result in both parties retaining whatever they presently have by title or possession, no attorneys being involved, and NO NECESSITY FOR ME TO LIST MY ASSETS ANYWHERE. My state is Texas.
Well, if you don't mind sitting in jail for contempt of court or the courts believing her if she tells them you are a millionare and ordering alimony and asset division based on her testimony alone (kind of hard for you to say otherwise if you ignore the process), then go ahead tell her to file. And then you ignore the legal process.
In the end, you will end up paying more than if you just stopped your nonsense, filed for divorce and negotiated a settlement.
BTW, the courts could order the divorce based on abandonment. And you would have proven that by, well, following through with your plan to ignore the whole process.
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/05/08 08:35 PM |
| 12.73.70.173 |
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Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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I don't know what state you are in or where you get these ideas, but that's not the way it works in Texas.
The scenario I was describing is based upon her willing cooperation and trust of me. I believe that this will work, and that it is the only way to accomplish a divorce while keeping greedy lawyers out of the entire process, while protecting our privacy.
If I am overlooking something I would like to know SPECIFICALLY what it is.
| Jada |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/05/08 08:55 PM |
| 69.115.64.195 |
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Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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Quote:
I don't know what state you are in or where you get these ideas, but that's not the way it works in Texas.
The scenario I was describing is based upon her willing cooperation and trust of me. I believe that this will work, and that it is the only way to accomplish a divorce while keeping greedy lawyers out of the entire process, while protecting our privacy.
If I am overlooking something I would like to know SPECIFICALLY what it is.
Yes, you are not going to get away with this type of manipulation.
Texas is in the United States of America. What you are planning on doing is called FRAUD.
It doesn't matter what state you are in. That's against the law.
I sincerely hope your wife talks to someone who will open her eyes to what will actually happen and realize just how abusive you have been.
BTW, while the lawyers may be greedy. You are just as greedy.
| Samsung |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/05/08 10:09 PM |
| 71.214.152.68 |
|
Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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I don't think what you are proposing is illegal, but if your ex asks for discovery, you ignore it, and she said you have a couple oil derricks going, what do you think the judge is going to do if you ignore everything, and don't show up?
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/05/08 10:49 PM |
| 68.88.199.0 |
|
Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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==========================================================
I don't think what you are proposing is illegal, but if your ex asks for discovery, you ignore it, and she said you have a couple oil derricks going, what do you think the judge is going to do if you ignore everything, and don't show up?
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To ask for discovery, she would have to have a lawyer and she doesn't have the money to hire one, does not qualify for legal aid because there is no abuse involved, and no one will lend her any money because she has no credit. The state BAR will not authorize Pro Bono legal work for family law, and it is against the rules for a third party to finance a divorce, by giving her the funds, in Texas. Oh, yes, it is also illegal to take contingency fees for family law work here.
She understands all this, and will be willing to totally cooperate with me in this way, even without my having to get too explicit about the possible consequences to her if she doesn't.
| saamrodi |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/06/08 10:03 AM |
| 24.32.252.253 |
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Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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If I were her, I would just sign and get as far away from you as possible.
"She understands all this, and will be willing to totally cooperate with me in this way, even without my having to get too explicit about the possible consequences to her if she doesn't."
You cant more of a threat than that right there. If anything ever "happens" to her, I hope they find all your crap on here.
| theanswerguy |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/06/08 10:17 AM |
| 205.188.117.143 |
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Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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Does anyone here know if there would be any problem in "coaching" my wife to file pro-se "against" me with the object of my ignoring all official communication from her and from the court, thereby obtaining a "no-fault" default divorce?
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes , it can be done . A default divorce would be granted 60 days after legal service . The court that grants the divorce would retain jurisdiction over any post-marital litigation .
This would result in both parties retaining whatever they presently have by title or possession, no attorneys being involved, and NO NECESSITY FOR ME TO LIST MY ASSETS ANYWHERE. My state is Texas.
| theanswerguy |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/06/08 10:19 AM |
| 205.188.117.143 |
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Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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To ask for discovery, she would have to have a lawyer and she doesn't have the money to hire one, does not qualify for legal aid because there is no abuse involved, and no one will lend her any money because she has no credit. The state BAR will not authorize Pro Bono legal work for family law, and it is against the rules for a third party to finance a divorce, by giving her the funds, in Texas. Oh, yes, it is also illegal to take contingency fees for family law work here.
>>>>>>>>>>> She could borrow the initial funds to file and request in her petition that you pay her " reasonable legal fees " .
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/06/08 03:57 PM |
| 69.148.85.128 |
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Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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===========================================================
She could borrow the initial funds to file and request in her petition that you pay her " reasonable legal fees " .
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I don't know who would lend her any money. If there is such a person I would like to borrow some from him myself.
I do not believe that anyone can find a case where someone filed a divorce on no-fault grounds, merely claiming that she can "no longer stand to look at him", or other nonsense to that effect, and a court has ordered the other party to pay the legal fees of the party filing. If there is I would sure like to hear about it. Anyway, to get to the point of being able to ask for this in the first place, she would have to have a liewyer, and as I explained, they either will not or cannot work free for her!
| gigi |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/06/08 05:30 PM |
| 68.110.66.68 |
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Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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While the bar might not allow pro bono work for families as part of their pro bono obligation, there are plenty who will do the work pro bono. While a lawyer is not allowed to take a contingency fee on a divorce, many a lawyer has deferred fees until settlement, put liens on the marital home or other assets, and done many other ways of deferring fees in order to await settlement. "contingency" does not mean the same thing as deferring a fee, it's just agreeing to take the fee ONLY if you win something, and to avoid this, they still charge the fees and expect payment eventually, but will get paid with the settlement funds once that happens.
Your belief that no one could or would represent your wife is outrageous, and it was thinking like that (no one could or would represent a criminal defendant) which got certain laws in place now which reuqire state payment of defense attorneys if the defendant cannot afford them, and behavior like yours in actively trying to prevent her from finding out her rights is exactly the kind of behavior that caused the Miranda case to come into existence.
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/06/08 10:07 PM |
| 69.148.85.128 |
|
Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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===========================================================
While the bar might not allow pro bono work for families as part of their pro bono obligation, there are plenty who will do the work pro bono. While a lawyer is not allowed to take a contingency fee on a divorce, many a lawyer has deferred fees until settlement, put liens on the marital home or other assets, and done many other ways of deferring fees in order to await settlement.
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I'm glad to see that you basically agree with me. As far as her being able to find one of the "many" attorneys willing to do pro bono work (without it getting them any credit for this with the bar) I don't believe that my wife is quite attractive enough to qualify for that kind of pro bono work. All of the lawyers I have ever talked to consider pro bono a big pain, and those who don't look at it as a way to drum up business with the intention to cut off the representation, as soon as they can ethically do so, unless the client comes up with some money. In my wife's case they would have to wait a l-o-o-ng time. BTW, if he can put a lien on MY home, why can't I put a lien on his?
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...an attorney willing to"contingency" does not mean the same thing as deferring a fee, it's just agreeing to take the fee ONLY if you win something, and to avoid this, they still charge the fees and expect payment eventually, but will get paid with the settlement funds once that happens.
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Some people just can't accept that you can't get blood out of a turnip.
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Your belief that no one could or would represent your wife is outrageous, and it was thinking like that (no one could or would represent a criminal defendant) which got certain laws in place now which reuqire state payment of defense attorneys if the defendant cannot afford them
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Of course, you're talking about criminal law, now. I will be happy to accept that the same principles of justice which apply to criminal law should apply to civil law as well, if you will do the same. What about the criminal principle of "Innocent until proven guilty"? Would you agree that this basic underpinning of the American system of justice should apply to civil law as well, as restated in the form, "Not liable until proven liable"? If you agree with this then, how can you continue to support community property law which maintains that a person is considered LIABLE UNTIL PROVEN NOT LIABLE of oweing his spouse fifty percent of everything he has? I would suggest you wait before answering this question, as no matter how you do so, based upon your past posts here you will appear to be either a liar, a hypocrite, an ignoramus or some combination of the three.
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behavior like yours in actively trying to prevent her from finding out her rights is exactly the kind of behavior that caused the Miranda case to come into existence.
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If only you had read my original post, you would know that I was not trying to prevent her from finding out anything. I was only attempting to learn if she and I could cooperate in obtaining a divorce while keeping the "adversarial" nature of divorce, which is pushed so hard by lawyers and the lawyer-politicians who make the divorce laws, at bay, while also protecting my privacy from these same greedy jackals who even try to entice the woman to "fight" her husband in court by imparting their own vile greed to her, through making certain that the man's assets are temptingly dangled in front of her, the way fresh bait is used to provoke the strike of a fish or other animal.
I am happy to see that all who have replied to my post, and whom I respect, have assured me that there is no reason we cannot proceed as I suggested.
If "poly" is a prefix of Greek extraction meaning "many", a tick is a blood sucker, and "ician" is a suffix indicating "One highly skilled in the art of" (as in the word, "electrician"), then a politician must be "One highly skilled in the many arts of blood sucking"!
| gigi |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/06/08 10:36 PM |
| 68.110.66.68 |
|
Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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Don't twist my words. I don't agree with you one little bit. I disagree with your plan, and the thought that you can keep your naive foreign wife from finding out what her rights are and at least knowing what property she's givng up by divorcing you is plain wrong.
You insist that you know the law better than even the lawyers do, so fine. Whatever. You think you have it all figured out so you can convince your wife to do what you want her to do without help, then fine. But don't twist yourself into any way of thinking that anyone here agrees with your plan or agrees that it's a good plan.
It's not good, it's not fair, it's not right, and it will PROBABLY bite you in the butt. But you don't want to hear that, you only want to hear the pieces of it where you win. So be it. Your failure to see what the rest of us are saying is making it more and more clear that you ahve a mental disability. YOu asked for information about the pitfalls of your plan, we've given it to you and you simply don't accept it. Fine. Your own disability gets in the way of your understanding that maybe you're not right.
I'm familiar with someone with a similar disability and have learned that it's not worth arguing with it. So you're going to do what you do and you're going to think as you think and you'll not figure out that your idea is foolish until it bites you in the butt, and even then you'll claim it was not your plan but rather some other evil force that did you on... the politicians or lawyers or some other thing. It'll never be that your plan was wrong (as we've said)...
It's useless to continue to try to explain to you. You just don't get it. I suspect you can't.
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/06/08 10:44 PM |
| 69.148.85.128 |
|
Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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I see that you were prudent enough, again, not to answer my question. You may be a presumptuous idiot, but you're no fool!
| theanswerguy |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/07/08 12:02 AM |
| 205.188.117.143 |
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Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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I don't know who would lend her any money. If there is such a person I would like to borrow some from him myself.
>>>>>>>>> The initial filing fees are less than $200 , a paralegal could complete the petition for a few hundred more .
I do not believe that anyone can find a case where someone filed a divorce on no-fault grounds, merely claiming that she can "no longer stand to look at him", or other nonsense to that effect, and a court has ordered the other party to pay the legal fees of the party filing. If there is I would sure like to hear about it. Anyway, to get to the point of being able to ask for this in the first place, she would have to have a liewyer, and as I explained, they either will not or cannot work free for her!
>>>>>>>>> Texas only requires that the marriage is "beyond any "reasonable hope of reconciliation" for a nofault divorce to be granted . Legal fees can always be assigned to the " moneyed spouse " .
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/07/08 12:42 AM |
| 69.148.85.128 |
|
Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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I don't know who would lend her any money. If there is such a person I would like to borrow some from him myself.
>>>>>>>>> The initial filing fees are less than $200 , a paralegal could complete the petition for a few hundred more .
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Thanks for the reply, but this wouldn't do her any good unless the paralegal would also represent her for this same figure, at least until the process went through discovery--which could be quite expensive--before she could possibly have any assurance that there even was a "moneyed party". Even then it would have to be seen if any of this hypothetical money is unencumbered and available for such an order, another lengthy and expensive process for the paralegal to get involved in before she ever sees more than the $200, which would not have come from me in the first place and which I still don't know where she would get.
My question was not simply whether the other party COULD be ordered to pay the filing party's legal fees, but whether they WOULD be so ordered, if it were a no-fault divorce with no clear justification for it provided by the filer. To authorize this would mean that a disappointed gold digger, who may claim to have nothing but has been lavishly spoiled by her husband, and who may in fact have a drawer full of jewels at home--which he provided for her--could divorce her husband and, perhaps vindictively (for what reason I cannot imagine), even make him pay for the divorce. I refuse to believe that such a thing could actually happen in this country because it would be not only unconscionable but unthinkable.
You still have not provided me with any kind of citation to show that this could happen, and you will not, because it can't.
| theanswerguy |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/07/08 01:02 AM |
| 205.188.117.143 |
|
Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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Thanks for the reply, but this wouldn't do her any good unless the paralegal would also represent her for this same figure, at least until the process went through discovery, which could be quite expensive, before she could possibly have any assurance that there even was a "moneyed party". Even then it would have to be seen if any of this hypothetical money is unencumbered and available for such an order, another lengthy and expensive process for the paralegal to get involved in before she ever sees more than the $200.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You are unfamiliar with the " divorce process " .
My question was not simply whether the other party COULD be ordered to pay the filing party's legal fees, but whether they WOULD be so ordered, if it were a no-fault divorce with no clear justification for it provided by the filer.
>>>>>>>>>> Yes
You still have not provided me with any kind of citation to show that this could happen, and you will not, because it can't.
>>>>>>>>>> Would you prefer case law or statutes ?
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/07/08 01:12 AM |
| 69.148.85.128 |
|
Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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Thanks, but if you recall I was initially referring to a no-fault divorce filed pro-se by my wife in which we had the understanding that I would ignore any communications and the divorce would be finalised in 60 days, as you mentioned, with a default judgement. Even if it didn't proceed that way, no judge could physically order something paid, whether my wife's legal fees or anything else, without first establishing that the unencumbered funds exist to pay this order. If this wouldn't happen in discovery, in Texas, then I don't know where it would happen.
I would appreciate links to any relevent case law or statutes you may be able to provide.
BTW, do you know a source of "blue sheets" of family court reporting, for trial courts in Texas?
| theanswerguy |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/08/08 11:06 PM |
| 205.188.117.143 |
|
Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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§ 6.708. COSTS. (a) In a suit for dissolution of a
marriage, the court as it considers reasonable may award costs to a
party. Costs may not be adjudged against a party against whom a
divorce is granted for confinement in a mental hospital under
Section 6.007.
(b) The expenses of counseling may be taxed as costs against
either or both parties.
Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 7, § 1, eff. April 17, 1997.
§ 6.709. TEMPORARY ORDERS DURING APPEAL. (a) Not later
than the 30th day after the date an appeal is perfected, on the
motion of a party or on the court's own motion, after notice and
hearing, the trial court may render a temporary order necessary for
the preservation of the property and for the protection of the
parties during the appeal, including an order to:
(1) require the support of either spouse;
(2) require the payment of reasonable attorney's fees
and expenses;
(3) appoint a receiver for the preservation and
protection of the property of the parties; or
(4) award one spouse exclusive occupancy of the
parties' residence pending the appeal.
(b) The trial court retains jurisdiction to enforce a
temporary order under this section unless the appellate court, on a
proper showing, supersedes the trial court's order.
Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 7, § 1, eff. April 17, 1997.
| theanswerguy |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/08/08 11:10 PM |
| 205.188.117.143 |
|
Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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The court may award attorney's fees. That is, the court may order one party to pay some or all of the other party's attorney's fees.
Cases:
Grossnickle (1996) 935 SW2d 830 (it was all right for court to decline to award attorney's fees, concluding that the use of community funds for attorney's fees was approximately equal between the two parties).
Parker (1995) 897 SW2d 918 (when there were several interrelated causes of action, the court did not have to separately assign attorneys' fees for each one; also, attorneys' fees, if awarded as part of a property settlement, can be awarded to the party in need of financial support, regardless of the outcome of the case on the merits at trial or on an appeal; but attorneys' fees awarded based on the cause of action, must make the award conditional on the paying party losing the cause of action).
| jbar |
| (Platinum) |
| 04/10/08 03:30 AM |
| 68.88.192.13 |
|
Re: Helping STBX file for default divorce
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Thanks.
Moral: Don't ever sue or get sued by anyone needing financial support, at least in a Texas family court. This won't happen though because I won't sue her for divorce and she will never get the money (or free pro bono work) to even get such vile nonsense started.
But this doesn't really matter in the case of two parties wishing to accomplish what we are planning. For these cites to apply you have to have attornies and appeals.
She will just have to keep the relationship she has now with me then, with only a monthly bus card I give her, food vouchers from a local grocery store and my returning from overseas monthly to buy any of her clothes, etc. she might need. I will be paying the utilitys on-line from overseas. She is terrified to go out, so I don't think she will be getting a job to get any funds to pay lawyers. When she wants out of this perfect parasitic existence, she can file for no-fault and I will wait for the default decision. I will pay the filing fee and any other court charges with money orders which can be used only in this way.