stoltz
Platinum
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: Texas
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Many people probably know that Texas got hit hard with flooding the last couple of weeks. I was watching a local news station the other day, and one segment was about a single man who lost everything in the floods. The reporter said that the man got 5 days worth of help from the Red Cross (a hotel room and money for food/clothing) and he had tried getting help from local shelters in town, but was refused help because he was not a woman.
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jbar
Platinum
Reged: 12/16/06
Posts: 1074
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This is just another example of the blatant, hypochritical anti-male mentality in this country. Of all of the laws against discrimination which are on the books, the ones against sexual discrimination are the easiest to enforce, when there is no question of employment involved.
I suggest the man in question file a civil rights suit with the Justice Dept. over this. Perhaps then any individual or organization providing "shelter" to anyone would be forewarned not to discriminate. Even use of the expression "women's shelter" is discriminatory!
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stoltz
Platinum
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: Texas
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What really got me about the story when I watched it is that the reporter (a woman) said it in passing like it was no big deal.
While I agree that the man should file a lawsuit, he probably won't because (1) he has much HIGHER priorities right now to deal with, (2) it will drag in the courts and be tossed out in the end (like all other blatant unconsititional discrimination toward men), and (3) he'll probably get some money thrown his way from some people and feel he shouldn't muddy the waters.
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Meg21
Platinum
Reged: 10/25/06
Posts: 1664
Loc: Midwest
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That's a horrible thing for that man to go through and I hope he has family and friends who can help him, but something you two are overlooking AS USUAL is that if a shelter is for women or women and their children it is never allowed to have a man stay there for REASONS. It is not safe to have men in women's shelters. Period. It's not fair to the women to have a man there, even if he needs help. I've noticed that this isn't the first time someone has mentioned men not getting into women's shelters. But something no one takes into consideration is that the reason there are women's shelters is because WOMEN faught to get them. We've been fighting for rights and help and things like shelters to be safe in for decades if not longer. You want a men's shelter? You want to help men like the man who's house got flooded? DO SOMETHING YOURSELF! That's what women did, that's why we have shelters. Start a shelter yourself. Get other men and women in your community involved. Seriously. Maybe someday there will be as many men's shelters as there are women's shelters, but to get there someone has to get the ball rolling. So, roll it!
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I love tattoos!!! Woot woot!
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gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5173
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There are men's shelters. For years, there have been men's shelters. They're not as nice as women's shelters, which is part of the problem. Frequently, women who need shelters are fleeing abusive marriages or unable to afford a place of thier own... the ones fleeing abusive marriages find it much easier to find shelter. Frequently, men who need shelters are unalbe to afford a place of thier own or have been kicked out elsewhere for being intoxicated or high... They are RARELY fleeing for reasons of being abused (and the few who have that problem DO have a problem finding shelter). BUT all people who are displaced because of fire or flood or hurricanes... the traditional shelters are not nice for them, they're full of recovering alcoholics & habitually homeless... and they ALL tend to turn to Red Cross when disaster displaces them. That's what the Red Cross is all about. If there were a flood that displaced a bunch of single women who were not abused... you can bet the battered women's shelters would turn THEM away as well, send them to the red cross shelter.
Should he sue? Well, to sue for discrimination, you first have to prove that you're a member of a class of people who need protection of the anti-discrimination laws. What minority is this guy part of which has been traditionally unable to feed & house itself? When he showed up at a battered womens' shelter, asking to be housed becuase his house was ruined, what made him think he was part of THAT protected class & deserved to be protected? Was the fire or flood that ravated his house liable to chase him down, find him and maybe rape him?
I'm all for pushing for men to be protected from harm in an equal way as women... but I don't like it when the facts are skewed so that things sound like they're discriminatory when they're not. Talk to me about how men don't get custody of the kids, or how they're laughed out of court when they try to explain that the ex wife is abusive... but don't take that extra step & try to tell me that they're in more physical danger on a regular enough basis that we need entire dormatories dedicated to protecting them... and don't try to tell me that a man who is displaced due to a disaster is disccriminated against because he had to go to the Red Cross (which takes care of ALL people who are victims of disaster) rather than a battered women's shelter!
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stoltz
Platinum
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: Texas
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The question is are these shelters paid for in any way, shape, or form, with taxpayer money? I recall looking up one such "women's" shelter several months back and the list of contributors was a government agency. Therefore, since this man is a taxpayer, he has every right to demand equal service if the shelter is receiving funds from his pocket through a government agency, regardless of claiming if he is in any particular class.
BTW, what are your (and anyone else's) thoughts on the Trojan commercial that depicts men as disgusting, dirty animals (pigs, to be specific) until they plop down some money for a condom? It's interesting that the women in the commercial are depicted as model-esque types, too, eh? More sexism in the media, IMHO, which is crammed down the public's throats.
Edited by stoltz (07/11/07 12:16 PM)
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HardKnox
Platinum
Reged: 06/13/07
Posts: 2764
Loc: Wisconsin
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WELL, you know how it is. We men are TOUGH. We can forage around for roots and grubs for dinner and make a lean-to out of pine boughs for shelter for the night. We can make a fire-starter out of some sticks and twine. We'll be FINE.
Kind of a bummer with no fridge for the beer, but we'll be FINE.
The more I read this stuff the more I see the evidence of discrimination against the male of the species. It's nice how my STBX is "entitled" to 50% of all the stuff I have accumulated over the past 48 years.
HAH! For a moment, I actually thought most of that stuff was MINE!
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gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5173
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HardKnox. You had a 48 year long marriage? Gee, I thought you were younger than that.
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HardKnox
Platinum
Reged: 06/13/07
Posts: 2764
Loc: Wisconsin
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Heeheehee....good one gigi.
OK, I should have said "It's nice how my STBX THINKS she is "entitled" to 50% of all the stuff I have accumulated over the past 48 years."
I started accumulating things at a VERY young age.
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Sarah1014
Platinum
Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 2354
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Ok you guys. I don't know much about this but consider:
The world is basically run by men. Why all the injustice to you?
I will never get into a discussion about this gender crap because it's a waste of my time and gross generalizations.
Here's my experience with the Red Cross though...
A few years ago, my brother and sister-in-law's apartment building burned down. Mind you, she is basically new to our country--a doctor from Lithuania.
The Red Cross stepped in and provided stipends for food, clothing, new bedding, hotel stays, etc. They were on site for nearly a week aiding with the cleanup and providing food and water and supplies for the job. They even provided U-hauls for the tenants. They were beyond AWESOME!!
My sister in law was so impressed that she said she will give to the Red Cross for the rest of her life.
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HardKnox
Platinum
Reged: 06/13/07
Posts: 2764
Loc: Wisconsin
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I have no particular beef with the Red Cross.
I'm simply allowing jbar and stoltz to fan the flames of my impending woman-hatred.
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stoltz
Platinum
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: Texas
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The world is basically run by men.
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In what sense? Our (the USA's and most other Western culture's) society may be HEADED by men in most instances, but I'd definately say the economy (e.g., consumerability) and other aspects of our society are run by women (such as many legal recourses).
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Why all the injustice to you?
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Have you got a few days?
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golightly
Gold
Reged: 04/10/07
Posts: 141
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Hardknox - I make about 50-75% more than my husband does. His expenses are higher because he has 2 sons. He (and his sons) also do a lot of expensive sports (skiing, snow mobiling, dirtbiking). But you know, he works more hours than I do, and his job is physically and mentally more demanding than mine is. (I have the benefit of an MBA that I put myself through - he never went to college and has his own business). When we got married, he had more assets than I do (he's 10 yrs older), but a lot more debt. Because I had retirement savings, my net worth was probably quite a bit higher.
Anywho...if I were to try and parse out on a daily weekly monthly basis what is his and what is mine, our marriage would surely collapse. What stuff is whose? I paid for his snowmobile last year, but dont' ride the thing - is it his or mine? He bought his house 15 years ago for 1/10 what it is worth today, partly because of improvements I paid for (although he did most of the labor himself). He does all the exterior maintenance, I've paid the mortgage for the last 5 years. IS it his house or mine? Who cares. A marriage should be a partnership. Even if the contributions of both parties are not equivalent financially, I think my husband deserves a claim to at least half of my income because 1) he's my partner in life and my best friend, 2)he listens sympathetically to me complain about my job, 3) he is my #1 cheerleader whenever I get down and 4) I work some evenings, and he has to watch our two toddlers by himself and do the whole bed time thing, and I could go on and on about all the contributions he makes to our "partnership" that have nothing to do with money, assets, or "stuff".
If you go into a marriage, or during your marriage begin to see stuff as "yours" and "mine," and who is contributing what as unequal, then your relationship is doomed. If you are the kind of guy who likes a clean house, a hot meal, clean laundry, manicured flower garden, regular sex and a sympathetic ear, and don't believe that is worth sharing EQUALLY whatever economic fruit you bring to the table, you will never find a satisfying mate. I pity you, truly - if your heart can't go there, you are just plain missing out.
Edited by golightly (07/11/07 01:41 PM)
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Sarah1014
Platinum
Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 2354
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To Stoltz and JBar,
I have your solution right now. Do not ever marry another woman for as long as you live.
....instead, marry a man!!!!!!
NOW SHUT UP before you ruin poor Hardknox too. I think he likes "Notchy" too much though.
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HardKnox
Platinum
Reged: 06/13/07
Posts: 2764
Loc: Wisconsin
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[quote]If you go into a marriage, or during your marriage begin to see stuff as "yours" and "mine," and who is contributing what as unequal, then your relationship is doomed. If you are the kind of guy who likes a clean house, a hot meal, clean laundry, manicured flower garden, regular sex and a sympathetic ear, and don't believe that is worth sharing EQUALLY whatever economic fruit you bring to the table, you will never find a satisfying mate. I pity you, truly - if your heart can't go there, you are just plain missing out. [/quote]
It appears that a lot of people on this site "pity me". I never realized that I was so pitiful.
Sure I like a clean house, clean laundry, hot meal, manicured flower garden, sympathetic ear and regular sex. It's just too damn bad that I rarely got any of those things. If you want to pity me, pity me for THAT.
I think it is ridiculous to presume that one cannot have things that are "yours" and "mine" during a marital relationship. If I buy a new deer hunting rifle it is then "technically" 50% my wifes? What is she going to do with it? There again, I have no designs on the bike she just bought. It's hers.
It damn irritating that I would have to pay the STBX a sum equal to 50% of the value of that deer hunting rifle "to buy out her interest" of something that is MINE and that I ALREADY PAID FOR. That means that everything of value that I bought during the marriage (that I want to keep) I have to pay 150% of the actual value. So, it behooves me to sell everything I own bought during the marriage.
I find this senseless.
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HardKnox
Platinum
Reged: 06/13/07
Posts: 2764
Loc: Wisconsin
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Who's "notchy" and do you have her phone number?
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Sarah1014
Platinum
Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 2354
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Hee hee hee!!!!
"Notchy" is that thing that Mari talks about.
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HardKnox
Platinum
Reged: 06/13/07
Posts: 2764
Loc: Wisconsin
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Oh and by the way, golightly, in re-reading your post, you are talking about your current husband, no? Your buddy, your partner, your life-mate, your soul-mate?
Would you feel the same way if he had driven to an attorneys office, sat down and formulated a plan to strip you of 50% of everything you had obtained together during the marriage?
I think not.
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HardKnox
Platinum
Reged: 06/13/07
Posts: 2764
Loc: Wisconsin
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[quote]"Notchy" is that thing that Mari talks about. [/quote]
Yes, poor, pitiful HardKnox needs him some notchy.
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Sarah1014
Platinum
Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 2354
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Oh, quit feeling sorry for yourself and go get yourself some notchy! :)
Remember when we were gonna jump in the pickup and bring Kent beer?!
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HardKnox
Platinum
Reged: 06/13/07
Posts: 2764
Loc: Wisconsin
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[quote]Remember when we were gonna jump in the pickup and bring Kent beer?! [/quote]
Well, I don't actually HAVE a pickup. I use the term "truck" for any form of SUV. It's a "Wisconsin thing". Kent seems to have vanished and that's good, maybe he's feeling better now. Kent can go out and find his own "notchy" anyway.
WILL YOU STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT.
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Sarah1014
Platinum
Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 2354
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ROFL!!!!
I'm sorry, I forgot the subject.
I'm switching between this and youtube.
...still not dressed...
...day off...
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stoltz
Platinum
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: Texas
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==============================================================
To Stoltz and JBar,
I have your solution right now. Do not ever marry another woman for as long as you live.
....instead, marry a man!!!!!!
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If you knew me here long enough, you'd know that I am through with women after the current one. As I mentioned before, hooking up with a woman is like playing Russian Roulette with 5 bullets in a 6-chamber pistol.
The downside with my particular situation is that I stand to lose a lot - a WHOLE LOT - so it isn't as easy as just filing for a divorce and wiping my hands of the whole mess, thanks mostly in part for the anti-male/anti-father bias in our courts today.
As far as "Notchy" goes, it is something I can most definately live without. Ironically, it's the one thing women use to bolster their empowerment over men. Once a man can curb/control this biological trait, the empowerment disappears (and the shaming language begins, a'la "marry a man").
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Sarah1014
Platinum
Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 2354
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I'm sorry this has happened to you. All women are not alike. Just like all men are not alike. If you got played on or taken advantage of, so be it. That was a life lesson. I would rather have believed in someone and gotten hurt than live life with distrust. This bitterness will engulf you. Let it go before it develops into disease.
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stoltz
Platinum
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: Texas
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That's just it ... You "take a chance" that something good (or something bad) will happen, or you just go along and live life to it's fullest anyway. So which do you choose - a chance of happiness or a guarantee? Not a hard choice to me.
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Sarah1014
Platinum
Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 2354
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I think you will be well when you stop obsessing over it.
Right now, you are pissed and rightfully so. The pendulum has swung way over in the opposite direction. In due time, you'll probably not even frequent this forum anymore...and go along with your life on a more even keel.
Sort of like...overcorrecting in the opposite direction.
I did that with dating after the divorce. I chose someone who was the polar opposite of my X. My X was a big, macho bully tradesman.
I then dated a geeky, overthinker, Mensan engineer.
Now I've finally come to the middle and have someone who more suits me.
...just a thought...
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gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5173
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Stoltz, it's not roulette. Maybe it is when you're 18 or 20, but by the time your 40 or 50, people have a track record. Is seh collecting child support, treating her exes like dirt? Does she accuse them of being abusive? Does she work & pull her own weight or does she live off her exes or parents? Does she have savings consistent with a woman her age should have?
OR, has she never been married & maybe has unrealistic expectations?
It's not roulette, but you need to look at somethign more than whether she is charming, talks a good story, and is good in bed. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, you just have to get more discriminating.
But with you, knowing your history, it may be a bit more. Maybe there's something you do that makes a perfectly ordinary woman think that she's go the right to become a lazy sponge? You probably should not move on till you figure it out... but it truly is NOT roulette!
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gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5173
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OMG, you dated my husband!! I just LOVE my geeky, overthinking Mensan engineer!
What's right for one person is not for another. The trick is to figure out what's right for YOU. And I don't think Stoltz has gotten there yet. I think he acts & reacts based upon what his most recent experience or pain might ahve been, and his current accumulation of experiences shows him that women are like chambers in a revolver primed for an unfair game of Russian Roulette. We're eithe rloaded with ammunition or empty. Sad, huh?
It's going to take more introspection than that... less blaming of the others & more figuring out what would be compatible... before he is ready to be less resentful.
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Sarah1014
Platinum
Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 2354
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Stoltz- I think you are generalizing and are very hurt yet.
Gigi--I sent you a PM
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stoltz
Platinum
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: Texas
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==============================================================
What's right for one person is not for another. The trick is to figure out what's right for YOU. And I don't think Stoltz has gotten there yet. I think he acts & reacts based upon what his most recent experience or pain might ahve been, and his current accumulation of experiences shows him that women are like chambers in a revolver primed for an unfair game of Russian Roulette. We're eithe rloaded with ammunition or empty. Sad, huh?
=============================================================
LOL! Gig, this isn't about just my current wife, or the two prior to that, or women I've dated, or even a combination of all - it is a collective assessment I've made from not only MY experiences with relationships, but from MY experiences with women as a whole and from OTHER MEN I've listened to and read about, along with an analysis of our society and the discriminatory laws and what-not that things are based upon.
I do admit, though, it *IS* sad.
Edit: BTW, as I've said upteen times on these boards, I *KNOW* there are honest, caring, loving, supportive women out there, but the stakes are just too high to even attempt to find one in the current scheme of things.
Edited by stoltz (07/11/07 04:10 PM)
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Sarah1014
Platinum
Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 2354
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Stoltz,
That's ok then. Do as you please.
This time though, I promised myself I would listen to my friends. I would take their opinions seriously.
I didn't before and got burned. I was told that he had a drinking problem, etc. I brushed it off. I ignored the red flags.
This time, no way! I am all ears!! I've met someone wonderful and everyone else says so too!!
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RemLex
Gold
Reged: 04/22/07
Posts: 146
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
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[quote] BTW, what are your (and anyone else's) thoughts on the Trojan commercial that depicts men as disgusting, dirty animals (pigs, to be specific) until they plop down some money for a condom? It's interesting that the women in the commercial are depicted as model-esque types, too, eh? More sexism in the media, IMHO, which is crammed down the public's throats. [/quote]
Stoltz -
I have seen this advertisement and must admit that it gave me a good laugh, however, to defend the men a little bit here; MOST women are no less the pig the commercial is depicting of men! I've seen groups of women in clubs, as well as been within a group of single women friends who are out on the "Prowl" looking for their next victim of circumstance to HOOK-UP with! A pig is a pig! Both genders have this quality, though both will deny having it.
Stoltz...any idea as to which gender was behind the making of this?
And - As far as the women being "depicted as model-esque types"...THAT'S A JOKE! What decent woman (or man for that matter) searches for a GOOD relationship in a BAR for god sakes? The answer..they are not...they are looking for a little sexual satisfaction, nothing more, nothing less.
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~a clear conscience is the sign of a bad memory~
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