What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 760
Loc: PA
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hmm i must have misheard her. Today she said if she went back a week with her mom then came back...then left at labor day, she WOULD be taking all her stuff with her. I thought she said she was leaving it hear. So now that the wax has been cleared out of my ears, or she lied lol, i think that's great. There are 3 large items that she is worried about loading but i alone could load the rest of the truck up. BUt then she keeps bringing up her bro has a broken wrist so can lift heavy. i said fine let your sis help. She says she doesnt want her sis getting hurt
um this is the sis that has more power tools than mr craftsman and she has installed her own windows in her house! i can bet she can handle 3 bulky objects just fine
Also her atty finally emailed her back last night but LIED and said my atty didnt offer alimony. he did say he got my packet of financial stuff from my atty and i know the letter was sent with that. Ok maaaybe there's a chance my atty didnt send in the letter but my bet is her atty missed the one line where alimony was offered
again today i told her hey we need to get moving. i said ill pay you all the extra money i have but i need stuff to live on and if i have to pay you a bigger lump, i have to pay less alimony so you need to decide what you want
i know she told her atty i will foreclose the house if they dont act very soon. It's not even a threat, its just reality. I cant pay mortgages plus alimony
her mom was supposed to be here yesterday but who knows when she is coming. And she wont do anymore packing because she said her foot is so bad. But i said ill help however i can.
so there's sorta light at the end of the tunnel. i'm sure she wants out because of the financial pressure and i know she finally told her atty she is moving by labor day. So maybe he will act ot this pressure at last.
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call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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jbar
Platinum
Reged: 12/16/06
Posts: 1066
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WWIL,
Be prepared for all of your tedious and drawn-out efforts to handle her with "kid gloves" to ultimately be for nought. Attornies automatically assume that the woman wants the absolute maximum that can be gotten in a divorce, and by the time she listens to their greedy mantra (and that of her greedy mother, et al), stemming from this mind set long enough, this is what she will go for anyway.
Hang it up, bro. You'll just have to take your place in line at the choppin' block with all the rest of us.
Good luck, anyway
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What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 760
Loc: PA
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yea but in what world will she get any money for the house if i stop paying the mortgage and it forecloses? Or can a judge force me to pay the mortgages i cant afford?
plus to be honest, unless i get equity out of the house, i have no cash to pay for 'the other things' and even selling them wont net her the money she would want. She's making out much better by taking the 'value' of them in cash than outright sales of 12 yr old SUVs that are upside down on the loan and old pool tables and a spa etc.
so fine atty wants to maximize it, i get that. But in my case maximizing it means 'forcing' me to take out a big mortgage to give her a lump. if the house goes, my legal equity is zero so i dont see how a judge could make me pay anything . PLUS i'd tell the judge her ^&*(^&*( atty ignored 5 months of me begging to move this along. I'd hope that counted for something. I tried to get wife to refi for months. she will even say i constantly pressured her.
i dont see how he can get blood from a stone. So assume the house forecloses but i owe her oh..say 10K for personal items. How do they get that money out of me in practical terms? Plus the bed/sofa are 1700/1100 is and that 2800 is on the visa. No way can you sell even 1 yr old stuff and make any money on that. So she and i would get nothing on that.
i realize i'm severely biased here but i simply cannot see how her atty drawing things out, making me homeless, forcing the sale of assets at severely reduced prices gets my wife anything but destroying our credit with the foreclosure and reducing our equity in personal things to much less than i'm offering her. If she would take the time to add up the things 'objectively' at resale value, she woudl see i'm giving her a deal. Also i'm offering her 10K for a house she admits would never pass buyer inspection. I cannot see how i'm NOT being a nice guy, even unreasonably generous
sure maybe they will make a 'killing' on alimony but thats not the big lump sum of 50K my wife was hoping to get for personal things. So even a bigger monthly wont make her very happy
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call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
Edited by What will I lose (08/10/08 09:07 AM)
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What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 760
Loc: PA
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in discussing pain patches, one of my friends who is a nurse sent me the following information. Basically I always thought sitting on a heating pad for over 8 hours a day want a good thing but now i have proof it could be a killer. And dont forget, prior to this year my wife was doubling up on patches without DR approval! :
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2006/206_fentanyl.html
The woman's friend helped her place the patch on her buttock, and the woman later used a heating pad in that area. Heating pads, electric blankets, heat lamps, saunas, hot tubs, or heated water beds should not be used with the patch. "The heat will speed up the movement of fentanyl from the patch into the body much more rapidly than normal," Stanski says. "This creates a risk for an overdose situation."
Two days later, friends discovered that the woman had died. She had apparently used two of the five patches prescribed. According to the ISMP, in addition to using a heating pad with the patch, it is suspected that a second patch was applied without removing the first one.
Too much medication from a fentanyl patch also could be absorbed if a patch is damaged or broken. The effects may also be exaggerated if a person wearing a patch drinks alcohol, or takes other medicines that depress brain function. "As part of its pain-relieving effect, fentanyl also causes brain depression as seen by some sleepiness and sedation," Stanski says. "This can add to the effects of other drugs like sedatives and tranquilizers."
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call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5141
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Gee, you'd better hope your stbx does not pass away of a patch/heating pad overdose while still living in your house, now that you know of the possibility, and there's a clear record that you know about it, I'm sure someone would accuse you of murder!
Look, your twists & turns about figuring out the property issues are SO unnecessary. You're trying to re-create the wheel, from scratch, and leaving out one part here, another part there... so the end result is that someone could come along and knock the hell out of it and take it all for themselves.
Figure out your current home value. Figure out your current property (vehicles, furniture, hot tubs, pensions, bank accounts, etc). Figure out your current loans.
Figure out what the value of all these things was at the time of the wedding.
make a balance sheet of it. Assuming both values are positive, subtract the PREVIOUS one from the CURRENT one. Then split the resulting number in two.
NOW, if you keep ALL THE PROPERTY AND DEBT, the number you get (after splitting the number in two) is waht you have to pay to her for the privelege of keeping it. If you don't want to make an equalizing payment (all your concerns about loans & etc), just find enough property on teh positive side of the ledger to give her enough to cover that value of what you are required to give her.
YES, you MIGHT have to give up one of your cars, or the hot tub, or a TV, or a computer. STOP talking about how she doesnt' want it, won't use it, won't appreciate it. You have a hell of a lot more to lose if you don't give it up.
Once the ledger is even, the property settlement is over.
THEN figure out if you want to buy something back from her by paying it off in installments, alimony-style. This will be above & beyond any alimony required by your jurisdiction, which might not be a lot, considering the incomes and her disability and needs, and the fact that the marriage was not a 25 year marriage.
She picks up and removes everything that was on the list as on her side of the ledger, and you sign over title in her name (on the things that a title is an issue, like a car or a house), and she does the same for you. You each re-name the loans into your own separate name (which means re-financing eventually, though in this market most people are giving each other some time to do it so that they don't LOSE thier houses)... and each go your separate way.
The way you KEEP going at it... piecemeal ... trying so DESPARATELY to save EVERY LITTLE THING that you have, every time someone suggests a simply solution like "give her the damn car, for God's sake", you refuse to consider it and look for a way to convince her that it's not worth her bother on that item ... you are going to end up losing more than you hope to save.
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What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 760
Loc: PA
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gigi i think you missed the post where she just told me monday her offer of 50K was for everything except alimony. (this was the 1st time she ever told me that as i thought she wanted 50 for the house PLUS everything else)
she didnt sit down and break out stuff. She isnt interested in doing that and so my effort before that were wasted apparently . Just she wants 'some number'. She has my list of stuff and hasnt ever given it back to me with increased values on it. Therefore she isnt interested in talking about values of pool tables etc.
also she has her own truck and doesnt want either of the 2 cars especially since she says she will never drive again.
she's not interested in selling anything or even keeping much to be honest. even gave up on that old cabinet of my aunts.
she wants money and not to bring a lot with her. We are well over 50% packed if not more. She cant move any thing with her since her bro broke his wrist so now more than ever, she doesnt want heavy stuff
so there is NO need for me to sell anything. Just wouldnt net neither her nor me.
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call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5141
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As predicted, all I had to do was mention the pOSSIBILITY of you choosing to give up one of your precious extra vehicles, and you shut down.
You're not hearing what I'm saying. She wants $50,000 for everything, but she'll keep her own truck and some of the furniture and jewelry I assume? Did you come up with a list, when you did it, that said it was $100,000 total assets minus debts? If so, then her offer is reasonable and see if you can find a way to give it to her (by the way, you DID put "her" truck on the list too, like you put all of YOUR stuff on there, didn't you?)
And if you did NOT come up wtih $100K as a total net worth, then her offer is out of line and your effort is not wasted because it will be what you use to prove to the judge or mediator or anyone who will listen that she's off base. And if you DID come up with $100K as net worth, then your effort was not wasted because it made you knwo that her offer is fair.
She is not negotiating from a point of view of reason, and you're responding to her with one item at a time... Talk about the cars today, the spa tomorrow, the value of the house in 3 days... it can ONLY make her crazier and more confused to do it like that! It doesn't matter that her number is $50K... it sounds like she pulled that out of a hat. Unless she is being exceptionally generous to you (like if your net worth is way over $100K) then you don't have to just suck it up and eat it. You NEED to make a FULL accounting of EVERYTHING, house, cars, furniture, loans, pensions, and figure out a number from a place of REASON!
All this swooshing around, talking about one item today and another item tomrrow... it's never going to get you anywhere! And if you think it is, look at where you were a year ago and where you are now... is she independent yet? Moved out? Is the house value figured out? Have you ahd a single mediation where you and she brought numbers and lists into your lawyers and hashed it out? ANYTHING?
You've done it your way so far... and look where it's got you. Try doing it the way the REST of the world does it when they're trying to stay amicable... be fair, make a list... etc., etc... and see if it gets you anywhere.
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What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 760
Loc: PA
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i think you didnt read something before. I gave her a list of everything i wanted MONTHS ago. And the values. And told her if she wanted, to change it. She never did. I cant force her to do that. Can you suggest how to force my wife to do this? you'd be a miracle worker if you did
you keep harping about selling things yet not even she has suggested it. So your discussion is without merit until she demands something. it would be foolish of me to offer to sell anything. Plus She would wind up making up the balance since the furniture and bed and jeep are upside down and are joint assets and debt. Woudlnt it be better for her to assign ALL the debt and turn over the asset to me? I think it would. I think your mind is warped by some event that happened that you keep telling me how to do things and they simply dont make sense in my circumstance. This woman is NOT making any demands other than her 50K period.
but her side has not ask for a THING except her mom told her ask 50K for everything. Yes my list included her and my assets and we agreed to keep each other IRA alone. Also my atty took my list and sent it to hers...and her atty did NOTHING. Can you tell me how to get her atty to respond? i'd pay you if you could
there is no furniture for her to keep other than her chair and if she wants, a love seat. Everythign else is mine pre marriage or debted. I keep posting that she brought virtually nothing in the marriage. So i feel she should walk out with the same. Plus living in a house with her sis, she really wont have room for stuff.
you made me laugh about my net worth..house is barely worth what I paid for it in as is condition and as far as things in the house, since most is pre marriage it's all mine and irrelevant. she's gonna make out good trust me
and you say i'm doign it my way so far. Um unless you can get your butt up here and prod her atty more than she/I have, you sayign to try things your way is not going to make a difference at all. You need to have figures to fight and negotiate with and i dont have them.
and you are forgetting she only got served may 6 so this talk of a year going by is totally off the wall.. 3 months have gone by.
so in summary:
WWIL serves her may 6
begs her to get her atty moving for months.
he does nothing, even reply to suit
finally about a month ago he filed for alimony but has not done a SINGLE thing since then
i pressure my wife many times a week to do something and contact him
i have drawn diagrams, made lists, told her to make up her own list, tell me what she wants..anytyhing..she doesnt even know what she wants for alim
i dotn know if you just try to stir the pot with irrelevant examples or i just havent told you enough but until her atty responds, i cant do anything. I'm 2 months away from stopping paying hte mortgage because i cant pay it plus alimony..does her atty care? heck no!
and do you think it's a good idea to be forcing my wife more than i already am trying to force her? wouldnt a judge see that as me hurting a disabled woman. I have to balance severe pressure vs what i want. i cant force her /atty to move any faster..this is OUT of my control in case you didnt figure it out by now :)
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call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5141
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I tell you I DID read it. I'm telling you to use your own gol darned LIST! Figure out what the value of your estate is and what the judge will say. Split it. Figure out if what she's saying is fair or not, and if not, use your list to prove it to the judge. Who CARES if she ever puts numbers on the list? If she doesn't want to, then fine... but if she takes any of those items on the list, she'd better be willing to pay for it... meaning, put it on her side of the ledger and count it as her part of the joint marital estate.
I've read what you have said. And you're still wanting her to do something when the only way to get this over with is for YOU to do something. Have you not figured it out yet that she has ZERO incentive to lift a finger? And when she gives you a number, a nice, round figure that she wants in order to wakl away quietly, it's JUST a number... something she WANTS... clearly not omething she's come up with by looking at the facts.
If you want to WIN, YOU be the one to look at the facts... stop fussing over this dresser or that car. Take the whole darned list and figure out the total value, cut it in half and THEN if she wants to take the dresser, you'll know whether or not ...
Look, it seems that you're both approaching this stuff with wild guesses and sentiment. You want to keep this car so you can drive one place and the other so you can drive in the winter in the driveway. You have to keep the hot tub because she can't take it. She wants your chest of drawers even though it's your separate property, an heirloom from your aunt, because she just wants it.
I've READ your stuff and NONE of it has the whole picture. You can't see the forest because you're looking at it, tree by tree... and what's going to happen is that the judge is gonig to hear you spend an hour talking about 2 of the trees and he's going to chop your gol darned forest DOWN.
Oh I give up!
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allthumbs
Platinum
Reged: 07/12/07
Posts: 560
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We've all explained how it works to WWIL numerous times. He is determined to do it his way. Maybe it will work, I don't know. Good luck man!
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