What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 760
Loc: PA
|
|
[quote] Why are you buying a laptop for a woman who needs to have incentive to get up & stop acting bedridden? [quote]
we took it out of the settlement money account last year. Whos money it is would be a matter of dispute. I got it for her in an effort to help her find friends, find cures for her illness etc. Obviously it didnt work..i tried.
[quote]
What is your thermostat set to? Of course she might not notice the temp set back. Temperature is not something that's always noticeable by the person suffering from it. But if she's been sitting on a heating pad to the point where she's burning herself, it would seem that maybe she is feeling too cold in general. [quote]
she's not burning herself or the DR would have said so. temp is at 65 usually (last year was a degree or 2 higher).also heat is irrelevant from a point of her getting up /down etc. the other half or more of the year she is the same sedentary person.
[quote] I'd suggest to try a space heater but it seems that the wife is in such a bad situation at this point that she might fall asleep and let the blanket fall onto it. [quote]
like she fall asleep with cigs in her hand and they fall down into the chair? I told her mom about that. said puts her, me and the cat all at risk. And i've already caught the pad left on all night
[quote]
What is the $1600 bill that you're worried about and why don't you think she's going to pay for it? it's all joint bills. Either the two of you are married or you're not, and if you ARE, then you have to pay this stuff together. [/quote]
homeowners insurance...just thought it was always billed with auto..nope..so yes i legally owe it but they may not accept the 75 a month i offered to catch up. So i'm worried. Its embarrassing but what can i say, stuff on auto i figured it's paid plus never got cancel notice!
--------------------
call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
|
gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5141
|
|
Turn the thermostat to set it UP HIGHER during the day. Don't keep her in freezing temperatures.
If you dont' agree with all my comments about how no one sitting in a 65 degree house would get out of bed voluntarily anyways, think of it this way... do you REALLY want to go to court and have to defend yourself against the accusation that you're leaving her in objectively COLD house every day? One of the few things that a tenant can use to show that their landlord's lease can and should be broken is that the heat/air conditioning issues are not appropriate... If you shut off all the vents in the other rooms and only heat the room she is in during the day, then FINE, but give the woman some heat. 65 is fine for a gym, and a blood bank, but not for any place else.
Look, I give blood (platelets) frequently (shameless plug... please, if you've got time in your life, give blood as regularly as possible and talk to all your friends and family about how you want to donate it all after you die... what do you need it for anyways, and it really IS the gift of life. If you want to make certain it's done, the people who love you and will be called in an emergency need to know about your interest in it so that they'll sign the necessary documents to let it happen)... I give blood regularly, and they keep the room at 65 so that the blood products are maintained properly. But it is ROUGH for the people like me who have to sit there for a few hours, quietly waiting for the platelets to be whirred around and the rest of the blood replaced in our systems. They have heating pads and blankets for us and it's still pretty darned cold. When I get out of there, I've got all my fluid volume returned to me and the only thing out fo me is a few platelets, so I'm always just FINE, physically, but all I want to do is curl up under a blanket, jump in the hot tub, quietly warm up. Being too cold when you aren't able to move around and work out (like at a gym, for exmaple), is NOT conducive to moving around more. It's almost cruel for you to keep things cold like that and get angry at her for not being willing to get up & do things for herself.
You don't wnat others in the courtroom to think this about you when it's time to get the divorce. YOu'll look like a mean landlord who was trying to freeze out his tenants. Get rid of the Tivo and put a few extra bucks into heat for the rest of the stupid winter. You can go back to freezing the house NEXT winter... when she's gone.
The $1600 home insurance... for the purposes of your roommate situation, carrying insurance and who pays for it is a negotiable thing. For your current (previous married) situation, I'd expect that insurance would be jointly paid for by both of you and the $15K nestegg that she took would have paid for it.
BUT for the situation youv'e gotten yourself into, where she knows she is to get out, wehre she is squatting in the hosue with no move date in sight, but where she knwos you're not giving her a DIME of the equity in the house if you can help it... she has zero incentive to help you out on this and you're at her mercy.
I'd suggest filing for divorce and negotiating a roommate agreement where she pays rent and you pay "alimony" (which would probably equal itself out) and you negotiate some sort of expense share thing, get the house appraised and
DO the DAMN ledger of what all you have what debts you have, hwo will get what, etc., etc...
If you scramble around today worrying about the 1600... and leave the ledger another day... then tomorrow there will be a NEW little unanticipated issue that arises that you'll take care of first... issues which you COULD resolve if you had some certainty in your separation/rent/property settlement issues.
If the house was yours & yours alone, and she was OUT of it, then you'd have no issue with the insurance, right? You'd eithe rpay it or not and if not, you'd be VERY careful with your space heater and toaster until you could afford to replace it. If she was a tenant and you knew it was GOING ot be yours, then you'd at least be sure she'd not help with the payment adn you'd have to find some other way to insure the place... If you knew that the two of you were going to sell the place, and split the proceeds (just an example, don't go blind and decide not to read the rest), then you'd maybe decide not to renew the insurance and tell her taht if she wanted it insured, she'd ahve to pay insurance from her $15K and recover the payment after it sold.
But until you resolve these other issues, recognize that you're going to be constantly behind and spending more time REACTING (oh man, NOW her mother is here... oh man, NOW they're looking for a lawyer... oh man, NOW there's an insurance payment that got mishandled)... than moving forward.
Do the ledger. Start moving forward.
|
What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 760
Loc: PA
|
|
[quote] do you REALLY want to go to court and have to defend yourself against the accusation that you're leaving her in objectively COLD house every day?[quote]
i'm a bit confused. Can you explain when this would be brought up, in theory of course. As you well know i havent filed and she never will. So do you mean like months or years from now when there is a day in court and she will say she sat there freezing? And i would reply she has to go past the thermostat and could turn it up every day and i'd never know it (it would eazily cool down by the time i got home) and she never complained to me she was cold and in fact tossed off her robe all the time saying she got hot flashes?
I'm just trying to understand exactly when this accusation would matter. If she is leaving, would that bump her her alimony? Or do you mean if she goes to file something today that this would be used against me somehow? I just am tryign to understand how something in her control can be used against me.
[quote]
One of the few things that a tenant can use to show that their landlord's lease can and should be broken is that the heat/air conditioning issues are not appropriate... If you shut off all the vents[quote]
there are no vents, its' all or nothing. and what is the lease analogy here? If i knew making her cold would get me a D today i'd break the darn burner myself! lol Again i'm lost
[quote]
It's almost cruel for you to keep things cold like that and get angry at her for not being willing to get up & do things for herself. [quote]
again, what about the 6+ more months she is in the exact same situation and it's much warmer out? I know you are trying to make a point about cold but it's irrelevant because i have 8 years of proof that heat does not keep her from doing things. She has never complained it's too hot/cold as an excuse not to get up and do anything at all. But she does complain about the pain. Also please note that in almost 4 years, she has not gotten into the hot tub more than 3 times. What a shame, most people would die for a hot tub and she wont even use the therapy in her back yard! So i submit that is another thing she is not doing that is well within her power. (get into hot therapeutic water)
[quote]
You don't wnat others in the courtroom to think this about you when it's time to get the divorce. YOu'll look like a mean landlord who was trying to freeze out his tenants.[quote]
ok dense me cannot understand this. While ive never been in court i didnt know the master was an open session for the public. Interesting. Also, i dont think either of us wants to waste the money to go to court but i know no one knows what will happen. But even if so, is it a dury that listens to divorces? I had no idea. Also, i think the heat is totally irrelevant to forcing her out. I believe she would fight MUCH more strongly if i turned off the tivo, cable etc. I will promise you that. In writing. 100% :) She would be on the phone to her mom and WIC so fast my head would spin. now i agree turning off tivo would be constructively evicting her. And wouldnt i look like a meanie for takign away what objectively i would have to agree with was her entire life for 8 years?
[quote]
If the house was yours & yours alone, and she was OUT of it, then you'd have no issue with the insurance, right? [quote]
i have an issue because i dont have the 1600 today
oh and this morning i took down the women in crisis number off the fridge and told her that i find it offensive and if she wants to keep it on her table, fine but her mom is nuts for thinking i would abuse her. Her mom is full of poison. Plus as she knows it doesnt pay to get me out of the house since no one is here to get her cigs etc. So there is no gain for her!
--------------------
call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
|
gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5141
|
|
You won't file. She never will. Then you'll never get a divorce and she'll continue to live in freezing conditions and all will be well.
BUT if she leaves, you can BET she's going to file eventually, whoever lives with her will want your alimony to supplement thier income from her social security and they'll push it.
Whenver you end up in court, you're going to start from a scramble not to look like a jerk deadbeat who intentionally pushed his ex out of the house (like the landlord who engages in a constructive eviction) by making conditions pysiologically intolerable. Yes, it will mean a great deal to the final decision a judge makes on alimony, property settlement and everything. She may end up with the house AND alimony from you in compensation for putting her through torture (and believe me, this is how the mother will testify if it comes to that).
You don't need to worry abou tyour reputation in the public at all, who cares about that? Treat her like a jerk if you want and let all the neighbors know you're a scmuck who leaves your invalid wife in freezing conditions, who prevents your emotionally challenged wife from getting the help she needs by tossing away the numbers she's been given to try to get help, who forces her to use a heating pad just to maintain her body heat, which she is unable to handle so she gets burned by it from time to time. I couldn't care less if the neighbors hear about and think you're a jerk as a result.
But if you don't intend ot stay married, sooner or later one of you will have to file, sooner or later someone will ask for a decision on alimony or property settlement, and it's QUITE possible that her mother or sister or someone else who hates you (and you've made no attempt to try to cozy up to them as per my advice), will advise her to pull dirty tricks on you. You're all busy trying ot think up dirty tricks ot pull the other way around, artificially reducing the value of your house, turning off the heat to force her to leave, etc., and by DOING these things you're only going ot hurt yourself.
I know you're only at this point because you're totally frustrated by a woman who refuses to lift a finger for yourself, but you're truly not doing yourself any favors.
Tell me, what do you get by keeping her cold? A lower enough bill that you can afford the Tivo? And internet service? And cable TV? You refuse to get rid of THOSE things to save your life... (and house, and alimony payments), but you don't mind turning down the heat to an unliveable temperature for an invalid and idle person to handle.
I don't know how else to explain it. If you're not willing ot let her have heat in the house for the humanity of it, and you don't mind that her friends, family, neighbors, etc know it... and don't think that the courts can take anything from you that you value based upon your having been a jerk (and you can believe she'll paint you as a jerk... ehr mother will, at least).
Here's the thing, there are a few basics that if you're a caretaker, you can't NOT do... food, water, clothing, shelter from the weather (roof, windows, insulation) opportunity to be clean (soap & hot water if she can do it herself, help in bathing if she can not do it herself)... heat in winter and a/c in the summer. And a bed for sleep. And a telephone for contact to the outside world, complete with easy to find phone numbers nearby so she can FIND help if she thinks she needs it.
Cable TV, internet service, Tivo, cigarettes, alcohol, these may make her MORE comfortable in an invalid status, but they are not necessities of life.
I dont' know how to make it clearer. If you do things that are intentionally jerky, the judge will hear of it, the lawyers will hear of it, and the whole mood of the case will change. And since your biggest concern is numbers... then YES, the NUMBERS will definitely change. If you are perceived as having been as big of a jerk as you sometimes are tempted to be, if you are the evil son-in-law who kept the lovely disabled daughter imprisoned in a nasty smelling house in bed with nothing but a heating pad tha tburned her for heat in the winter, and removing even the phone number she was given in case she felt things got to an emergency condition... then YES, it WILL affect the MONEY. EVEN IF YOU DON"T CARE ABOUT THE HUMANITY of treating her humanely, think about your bottom line. The judge who decides that you are a jerk will do all kinds of things within the law that can hurt you... if there's a range of support from $1100 per month to $1500 per month, he'll award the $1500... if there's a choice between leaving the whole house to you or ordering you to vacate it & let her live there, he could EASILY order you to vacate it... if the house value could be anywhere between $200K & $250K, he'll value it at $250 K JUST so that you will have to pay more as an equalizing payemnt to keep it.
And that's the FAIR stuff he could do to you. YOU may have seen newspaper articles or complaints from men on here that UNFAIR things were ALSO done to them. Recognize that the UNFAIR stuff often happens as a result of someone thinking they've found the trick of forcing their ex out, starving ehr out, giving her less than what is fair, pulling the wool over her eyes or the judge's. If you start on that foot, it's an uphill battle all the way to court... and you can bet your lawyer will be the one who wins that battle... not on your behalf, but on his/her bank account's behalf. You may lose, but in the process, your lawyer will win big... or if there's nothing left for you to lose, your lawyer may abandon you, leaving the judge to make a decision with YOU making the arguemnt... you stnading there trying to explain that you were well within your rights to freeze your wife out... within your rights, maybe... but... like I said, the judge is within THEIR rights to give your ex $1500 a month, or $250,000 for the house, or ... well, any other kinds of interesting things that I can't even envision right now. You have NO idea the can of worms you're opening when you decide to start being mean for the sake of being mean, jsut because you CAN.
But let's do this experiment. Go for it. Turn the heat off. Let her figure out how to turn it back on. Toss out all the phone numbers. When her mother comes back in two weeks and asks where it is, let her tell Mama that you didn't wnat her to have it. Push her out and piss off Mama in the process. Then a year from now, come back and let me know if it worked for you. What the judge said about alimony when he heard what you did... that your defense to it was that you don't CARE what her motehr thinks, that her mother is a dirty girl in her own right... that your defense is that you can afford Tivo and Cable and it's your only source of entertainment so you can't get rid of it, but you can NOT afford heat for your invalid wife to live in. I'd really like to know if a judge who hears your defense to this is going to agree with you and give you what you think is a fair shake.
Good luck with it.
NOW... I UNDERSTAND that you're going ot come back with a different characterization of what you're doing... but that's the point, there are two sides to every story, and do you really WANT to have to be defending your side to a judge when a total stranger on the internet who has tried to help you out has told you that something you've done has crossed the line? Do you NOT understand that her characterization, her LAWYER"S characterization of things, is going to not make you look so good, and from a distant, objective point of view, saying you don't care how it looks is very short sighted?
But go with it. It sounds like you're determined. I felt sorry for you for having stayed with an invalid who is malingering and refusing to lift a finger to even help around the house, so I've given as much good advice as I can and you'll do as you wish. I know part of this is yoru frustration for having to go home to her every night, and I already gave my advice on that... which was to LEAVE her before the frustration got so bad that your judgement was imparied and you started doing mean thing... you choose not to follow the advice so far... I'm curious how it's going to end up for you.
Let us know how it goes.
Good luck.
Bot
|
What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 760
Loc: PA
|
|
[quote]your invalid wife in freezing conditions, who prevents your emotionally challenged wife from getting the help she needs by tossing away the numbers she's been given to try to get help, who forces her to use a heating pad just to maintain her body heat, which she is unable to handle so she gets burned by it from time to time.
turning off the heat to force her to leave,[/quote]
i am not sure where you get the turning down to force her to leave thing. I've had the heat low all winter to save money, money that goes to either atty, alimony etc. My decision has zero to do with forcing her out.
and the number wasnt tossed out..it was moved from the fridge to the tablet SHE uses every day. literally at her fingertips..that's helping her. Id think youd be happy to hear that :)
and i never forced her to use a heating pad. She uses it for back relief. And they arent burns, i dont think you read my post where the DR just last friday said the issue is she lays down in the same position and sits in the same position too often. So i'm not on the hook for that and the DR will back me up.
Also she sits on the pad even in summer, it's for pain relief. if she is cold she has a robe and uses it.. Plus the chairs we sit on are made of some material that is naturally warm..we die in summer because of the heat..gotta put towels down...but we needed the special chair with power up/down so she didnt get another hernia..i think it was nice of me to get her a special chair dont you think?
at least i found out why her mom was in a hurry to leave...gambling trip with a friend..that is so much more important indeed.
so if she moves out but neither file, can she still get support? I do remember someone telling me she has to 'do something' do get support and understand that, but didnt know if filing by either party was mandated before support could be ordered. And i dont understand why you say i dont treat he humanely...she lives like a queen compared to a lot of people i know, with virtually everything done for her
--------------------
call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
|
gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5141
|
|
Yes, if she chooses to move out and never files, adn you never file, then everything is in limbo and the idea is that you do on your own. Of course, if she can, and many do, she'll find someone to give her credit and that will be JOINT credit because there's no official divorce started, and that means she'll run up thousands worth of debts on your tab and you won't have a clue til the creditors chase you down.
If you put the number in a place where she keeps her numbers, then why were you so gleeful about taking it down? And yes I saw that the spots you thought were burns really were not. Here's the problem... you're not seeing it... when you piss off your mother-in-law, all the stuff I am saying to you is stuff that she's going to say to the judge. You put yourself in a defensive position of having to run around and look for proof that she's wrong, adn item by item, you may be able to find proof, but you're fighting an uphill battle.
All she has to say is that you keep the temperatures too cold for comfort all winter... ALL winter, and then complain when your wife stays in bed and under heating pads all day... and if you say, "yes, I do"... which you have to, because it's true... the rest of it that I was talking about, the complaints about how you don't pay attention to the woman's needs... it all starts to seem more realistic to the judge. If they hear that you're worried about heating costs at the discomfort of your wife, while NOT willing to give up Tivo or cable or internet... it's going to be another battle to fight.
I UNDERSTAND that you have a DEFENSE to every one of the items I've mentioned, and you have the right to make your own budget decisions, but if your wife has family members who are motivated to get her to fight dirty with you, there will be someone examining every one of those budget decisions... a judge. And you came on here months ago, asking what to prepare for, asking for advice on hwo to position yourself so that you dont lose your shirt. I'm TRYING! But you have an excuse for not following every suggestion.
|
Samsung
Platinum
Reged: 06/14/07
Posts: 2211
|
|
I have a new suggestion. Leave everything behind, move to Europe, and start over. No divorce, no alimony, no problems.
P.S. Make sure the county you move to does not recognize U.S. family law.
*Disclaimer* Not Legal Advice!
|
jbar
Platinum
Reged: 12/16/06
Posts: 1066
|
|
===========================================================
I have a new suggestion. Leave everything behind, move to Europe, and start over. No divorce, no alimony, no problems.
P.S. Make sure the county you move to does not recognize U.S. family law.
*Disclaimer* Not Legal Advice!
===========================================================
I will take that plagiarism:) as a compliment, Sam. BTW, such ideas are non-starters with WWIL though, as he is determined to stay in his "castle" 'til hell freezes over!
Edited by jbar (03/13/08 03:02 AM)
|
jbar
Platinum
Reged: 12/16/06
Posts: 1066
|
|
===========================================================
...if she chooses to move out and never files, adn you never file, then everything is in limbo and the idea is that you do on your own. Of course, if she can, and many do, she'll find someone to give her credit and that will be JOINT credit because there's no official divorce started, and that means she'll run up thousands worth of debts on your tab and you won't have a clue til the creditors chase you down.
===========================================================
Not so fast, Gigi. Marital debt has to be aquired for a "marital purpose" in Pa., if it is to be equally the responsibility of both parties:
http://www.vladimerlaw.com/ChildSupport.shtml
It is hard to see how such debt could be thus classified, if she has moved out, particularly if it is for personal extravagances. There are further defenses against this, such as publishing a notice in a particular publication normally designated for this purpose, to the effect that "I will no longer be responsible for any debts incurred by my wife", CANCELLING the credit cards, closing the accounts which are linked to debit cards, etc. His attorney should be able to tell him what to do.
Edited by jbar (03/13/08 03:57 AM)
|
What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 760
Loc: PA
|
|
[quote]Of course, if she can, and many do, she'll find someone to give her credit and that will be JOINT credit because there's no official divorce started, and that means she'll run up thousands worth of debts on your tab and you won't have a clue til the creditors chase you down. [quote]
hmm this sounds like it will benefit me. I have over 5K on our one visa and have to use 2K on our other to hire an atty. If you are saying all debt is joint, this is great news as she will have to pay half of mine too! Plus with her limited income and BK, i doubt they would give her a big credit limit anyway.
[quote]
If you put the number in a place where she keeps her numbers, then why were you so gleeful about taking it down? [quote]
either i'm not clear or you arent listening, I said i took the number down off the fridge, a spot where i would be forced to see it every day, and put it in HER table on HER table ...the same tablet she writes down all the important stuff she shouldntn forget. I was happy to take it down because i know her mom and it was her moms subtle way of trying to say she is watching. Which is a joke since she left her violently ill daughter go to gambling!!! you talk about how the judge will look at testimony..well how's her moms testimony gonna look when i tell the judge i had to 'force' her mom to go to the ER with us and then she wouldnt even stay to help nurse her 'in dangered' daughter? See, i for one minute dont think her or her family will go down that path, no matter what you think or have experienced, they may nail me for tons of alimony because of financial realities but i just cant see them doing the tricks you purport.
[quote] while NOT willing to give up Tivo or cable or internet... it's going to be another battle to fight. [quote]
you continue to misunderstand. Tivo IS my wife's life and if yo uare all about keeping her happy, i dont understand why you insist in canceling it. Plus i can afford 5 bucks a month, honestly. And she already said she is taking one of the machines. See you dont understand that i'm taking your advice and i need to point that out to you because you are so darn focused on the heat. You are saying to keep my wife happy and warm etc...tivo, being her life, IS keeping her happy. You say it's a luxury as is her cigs but i promise you on my cats life if i impeded tivo or her cigs, she would be the most distraught wife and maybe they she 'would's start thinking of the dirty tricks. you cant have it both ways gigi, if' i'm supposed to keep my wife happy thru all this, i have to keep her happy by HER standards right? Sure after she is gone i can decrease some of the bills but right now, if you take away tivo, you take away what 'happiness' she has. I hope you understand this even though it's hard to.
[quote]
if your wife has family members who are motivated to get her to fight dirty with you, there will be someone examining every one of those budget decisions... a judge.[/quote]
and i'll be able to retort that tivo is my wife's life, so i thought as a loving husband it was my job to keep it. Also i can prove i continue to pay every single house expense including her prescriptions even now and take her to all her appts. She only pays for food, cigs, her solo doctor visits. Thats it. So if you are sayign the judge will look over my budget with a fine tooth comb, i WELCOME it because i'm doing everything right to keep this woman on the same path she has been for the past few years. you can see that if you follow the money trail. I guess we look at things differently. You somehow see that i should cut things out but that will make her life miserable and i dont see how you cant see that (thru her eyes, nor urs or mine) . I see that as wrong and i should keep stuff 'the same' at least until she moves out. If keeping her happy is your goal, which you appear to infer as you want the heat up, why not keep the rest up too? I dont understand the line of thinking.
as far as dirty family members...well you see how her mom just left her high and dry when she was so ill just to drive to a casino...do you really think the family has any motivation to play dirty..? they are lazy asses that wont do a think to help their relative and only think of themselves. As evidenced by how much they came to help her out all these years.
oh and dont think i dont use the advice i'm given because i do. It's just i cant do everything in every way people present it to me on here, I take the new ideas and apply them to my unique situation with the nuances they deserve. So while you think im not following suggestions, that simply isnt true. Plus a lot of it is what/ifs that i simply must know. I'm a sponge and gather it all in before making any decisions. I take in all info, good or bad and take what i can use from it, the more the better :) Obviously you only get one chance at this and as i noted before as much as i like to do this today, august is really the earliest i would want her to file against me so waiting really doesnt hurt except that 2 yr clock.
--------------------
call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
