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What will I lose
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Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 705
Loc: PA
File now: pros and cons?
      #183994 - 03/04/08 02:10 PM (67.214.30.122)
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The atty last week told me that if i file, my wife doesn't have to do anything. She can not do anything for 2 years then she loses her right to contest the divorce. But of course we have to split property.

so 2 people I know are saying file now to start that clock. But see, my wife hasnt found an atty yet and isnt mentally able/willing to even talk about what she wants. I'd at least like to start talking with her to see what she wants but she doesnt know her rights at all yet and has refused to talk.

also the one atty i may get is 1500 up front and i'd have to take it from my visa and bring me near the credit limit. I do have a 2nd visa but im worried if i take out money from that that there will be accusations and the like about it. Plus then it will put another ding on the credit report and i'm trying to keep it clean to refi my house.

So forking out 1500 plus 300 filing fee appears to get me nothing now except putting my wife on notice that in 2 years we must start settling this. My thought is that she needs to see an atty 1st and then we can talk about stuff. Then we may need to get the attys fighting of course, but just starting out by getting attys seems to be just asking for aggravation up front. Id rather even talk to her, find out we 'need' to fight, then get atty.

so what are pros and cons of filing/not filing now?

PS i cannot afford to pay the 1100 of pre divorce alimony until August so again, doesnt seem to me i need to rush.

YES i want her out but the timing seems to be against me right now

--------------------
call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.


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What will I lose
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Reged: 05/21/07
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Loc: PA
Re: File now: pros and cons? [Re: What will I lose]
      #183997 - 03/04/08 02:21 PM (67.214.30.122)
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additional info..my wife is clueless about our finances..would it show me as 'the good guy' if i gave her and her mom that list to take to the atty to show them? I'm a proactive guy in that i'd like to show im cooperative and not hiding anything etc. I dont have anything to hide but boy i wish i did!

--------------------
call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.


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gigi
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Re: File now: pros and cons? [Re: What will I lose]
      #184001 - 03/04/08 02:36 PM (68.110.69.37)
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Filing does not mean settling. If you wait and she gets an attorney, she may end up eing really nasty about the terms of any agreement she'd be willing to negotiate, not to mention that if the 2 years hadn't started running yet that after getting what you thought was an agreement, you could come down to 1 year 11 months and find out that she decides to change her mind.

Getting the ball rolling on the time limits does not mean you have to separate... at least that's what I hear... in PA... When I got divorced, the state I was in, it was a short tiem limit and we HAD to separate... but I hear that PA, you could end up living a war of the roses for a full 2 years after the initial filing and even then it might not be final if she contests it at the last minute & makes you go to court over it all.

You could end up with her hanging around your neck for years & years if you wait for her to get the energy to find an attorney for herself. If you think getting her to MOVE is hard... just wait till you wait for her to get a LAWYER... and on top of that, watch the disappointments you're going to encounter if the lawyer she finds is evil & willing to do dirty tricks.

One good friend of mine, he did not care for his in-laws and so he did not take my advice to be nice to them and to her... he berated his wife often for the affair she had, and the in-laws finally started believing that he was as evil as she claimed and that she had good reason for having an affair... and they found her the nastiest darned attorney avaialble and helped her create some dirty tricks, generate arguments for her to get on tape to try to prove that he was violent... the father actually continues to try to create fights between them, confronting my friend in the men's room at the courthouse & other such nonsense.

My friend had wanted to wait till the last possible minute, giving her a chance to get a lawyer, before filing, and he waited & waited...not knowing that she HAD gotten a lawyer and was busily trying to goad him into an argument so she could tape it, run to a judge, get an order of protection and kick him out of the house. When he found out, it turned otu that she had gotten the lawyer about half a year before the actual filing... and the nastiness had risen to such a level that ... well, they both lost their shirts in the divorce and the kids are now struggling in school, the middle kid is losing friends, heck, my best friend won't allow her kid to play with thier kid any more, because the kid is acting out so much... and these kids WERE GREAT kids before all this started.

They lost the house, the retirement savings... and most of the furniture... to fund their battle to the death... she wanted lifetime alimony and quit her part time job to prove that she couldn't work... his company went belly up during the divorce. To fund the temporary support, he had to cash in the retirement accounts, and her lawyer made hay with that, claiming that he was looting joint funds to support her when he shoudl have used separate funds of his own to do it.

TRULY, it's a mess. Because he waited and let her get HER ducks in a row, allowed her family to think he was evil, didn't defend himself and tried to handle the PAPERWORK part of this in a calm, businesslike manner (handling the emotions of her affiair, though he didn't do so well). He had trusted the mother of his children and her parents to do the right thing, and they ran out, hooked up with a really evil lawyer, and bought all the nasty tricks they could afford... well, MORE than they could afford.

The house is sold, the equity being used to pay the lawyers, the retirement accounts mostly used to pay her support... and now that it's over with, my friend's life is looking very different for the future than the high income life he and she had dreamed of for themselves and had started to build... the pool, bikini'd wife with the surgically enhanced body, the perfect kids with perfect grades and tons of extracurriculars... all gone. In it's place, they have her living with her parents & boyfriend in a double-wide retirement community where the kids have to hide inside during their week with her or get kicked out... the former husband living in a 3 bedroom apartment, boys in one room, girl in another, and him in the master... Kids failing in school & causing problems with friends ... mediocre job that he was able to get after his company went belly-up... no savings, no vacations unless paid for by the new employer... And everyone still being hateful to each other.

And STILL he's happier.

Go figure.

Get the ball rolling, don't let the mother or her have time or incentive to find any MORE dirty tricks, and know that since they've already looted $15K from the joint account, they've already shown a propensity to do dirty tricks, the best you can hope for is to avert more ofthe same and not give her the time to make more of them happen.

I've told you so many stories, friends that I've watched go through this (and I'm a good listener so I get details)... and NONE of the stories where people delayed and gave their exes a chance to get good and angry ended well. ALWAYS the stories wehre people delayed so they could DELAY (not even save) a few thousand on lawyers & filing fees ended with the otehr person in a positon to cost them more than the few thousand ...

I know there's a saying about it... why is divorce so expensive? Becasue it's worth it! (true, but not the saying I was thinking of)... hmmm... give me a minute... you get what you pay for? That's closer...

Oh phooey, the saying I'm looking for is some old one that suggests that if you are foolish enough to think you're saving a penny here, you might be losing a whole lot more there. Hmmm... I don't remember it off the top fo my head. But you get the point.

Good luck.


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golightly
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Re: File now: pros and cons? [Re: gigi]
      #184035 - 03/04/08 04:13 PM (71.209.19.1)
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Although I agree with a lot of what Gig says, I think there is also another factor you should consider. She's basically got $15k she can alott towards a lawyer - you've only got a couple grand. The way this lopsided situation worked for a friend of mine (she wanted the divorce but had no money, he didn't want the divorce, and had squirrelled away a large sum from a refinance) was that he stalled until she could no longer afford to pay her attorney, and then hit her with papers and a proposed settlement that was grossly unfair. Her lawyer told her just to sign it in order to get it over with, but his motivation was clear - he knew he wasn't going ot get paid another dime because she didn't have it.

I think my point here is that if in the short term she's got more cash to pay a lwyer with, she will definitely have the upper hand. So, if you can do some legwork yourself t ofind out the legal process, and try to come up with a settlement that is fair, it is far better to talk it through with her than to begin to get adversarial.


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KGrow
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Re: File now: pros and cons? [Re: What will I lose]
      #184036 - 03/04/08 04:15 PM (24.8.144.220)
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"so what are pros and cons of filing/not filing now?"

This is really a personal decision. You really need to take a [censored] at it yourself and not let others (strangers) do your thinking for you.

I do have to question the timetable that your lawyer has given you. As a practical matter, it could well take two years to resolve this but the notion that she need not do anything for two years is false.

For instance, that $1100 support your lawyer says she'll be entitled to is not going to be spoon fed to her. She'll have to lift a finger and formally request it. Before she does that she's going to need to get her ass up and find a lawyer.


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What will I lose
Platinum


Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 705
Loc: PA
Re: File now: pros and cons? [Re: golightly]
      #184041 - 03/04/08 04:21 PM (67.214.30.122)
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[quote]

I think my point here is that if in the short term she's got more cash to pay a lwyer with, she will definitely have the upper hand. [/quote]

my 300/hr atty said she can put a freeze on that so neither of us can use it..i'm sure the cheaper atty can too though :) But she didnt suggest it. so then my wife would have 'nothing' and i assume we'd have to fight about that money first before she could even pay her atty

--------------------
call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.


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What will I lose
Platinum


Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 705
Loc: PA
Re: File now: pros and cons? [Re: KGrow]
      #184043 - 03/04/08 04:25 PM (67.214.30.122)
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[quote]

I do have to question the timetable that your lawyer has given you. As a practical matter, it could well take two years to resolve this but the notion that she need not do anything for two years is false.

For instance, that $1100 support your lawyer says she'll be entitled to is not going to be spoon fed to her. She'll have to lift a finger and formally request it. Before she does that she's going to need to get her ass up and find a lawyer. [/quote]

so true but she doesnt 'have to' do anything. Just if she wants the 1100. Otherwise i cant think of anything either atty told me that my wife 'must do' in those 2 years, assuming she doesnt want to fight the getting of the D.

obviously attys will make money on the settlement portion but wouldnt make a dime on the 2 years up to that...if she didnt file for the 1100. Thats what they led me to believe at least. She can sit here and get waited on and i cant do a thing ;)

--------------------
call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.


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gigi
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Re: File now: pros and cons? [Re: What will I lose]
      #184049 - 03/04/08 04:31 PM (68.110.69.37)
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Do you know WHERE The $15K is? If not, how does the expensive lawyer propose to freeze it? Simply ordering her not to spend it might not work... and the court will allow her to spend it for necessities if there are no other choices...

KGrow is right, there is no way that you can simply file and suddenly be obligated to pay her without her lifting a finger. To get that temporary support, she has to lift a finger... knowing her issues, that probably involves finding a lawyer and filing a response because she probably wouldn't be able to do it on her own... and ASK for it in court.

I think you're mixing apples & ornages... if you're looking at needing a 2 year filing without her lifting a finger before you can file for a default ruling... that's very different from you filing and then her contesting it, asking for temporary support, and litigating this so that it's no longer a default case. THe way it will go, she will EITHER not lift a finger and you'll be able to keep your whole salary on a temporary basis (like if she gets her family to keep her and accept her $800 a month disability compensation as her contribution to the household) OR she'll have to LIFT a finger and then she has a chance at getting temporary support from you... but then it's no longer a 2 year uncontested divorce timeline that you're looking at.

There are so many ways this could go, and KGrow is right, only you know what's right for you... but don't stick your head in the sand and hope the woman who took $15,000 out of the account surreptitiously and got her Mama to come from 250 miles away to spend the week without telling you to deal with you up front about everything.


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Starion
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Re: File now: pros and cons? [Re: gigi]
      #184264 - 03/05/08 11:32 AM (204.80.222.11)
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File

It puts a date stamp on asset split. You can probably kiss the 15 grand goodbye. What is to stop her from taking more ? File and document everything from then on and hopefully you'll be able to retain/get credit for 1/2 of whatever else disappears.


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What will I lose
Platinum


Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 705
Loc: PA
Re: File now: pros and cons? [Re: gigi]
      #184292 - 03/05/08 01:20 PM (12.76.83.27)
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[quote]Do you know WHERE The $15K is? If not, how does the expensive lawyer propose to freeze it? Simply ordering her not to spend it might not work... and the court will allow her to spend it for necessities if there are no other choices... [quote]

she said it's still in her acct. And as far as necessities, i wouldnt mind her spending it on that but i pay everything but food and her doctors and her cigs now. So i dont think she has 775 of that every month

[quote]
KGrow is right, there is no way that you can simply file and suddenly be obligated to pay her without her lifting a finger. To get that temporary support, she has to lift a finger... knowing her issues, that probably involves finding a lawyer and filing a response because she probably wouldn't be able to do it on her own... and ASK for it in court.
[quote]

ok so i see how you all are telling me to file to get her to move out because to get the 1100 she has to move out and her atty would tell her that. But i'm not ready for that until August and she even told our therapist last night she wont be out until summer/fall.. so i think i need to circle the wagons and wait. Of course maybe i should file now and take 2K out of the visa i said i wouldnt use then just hope she doesnt move out or file until august..worse that will happen is it becomes my debt lol

[quote] THe way it will go, she will EITHER not lift a finger and you'll be able to keep your whole salary on a temporary basis (like if she gets her family to keep her and accept her $800 a month disability compensation as her contribution to the household) OR she'll have to LIFT a finger and then she has a chance at getting temporary support from you... but then it's no longer a 2 year uncontested divorce timeline that you're looking at.[quote]

Firstly it's a guaranteed 1100 (both atty said so) if she files for support before finalization, but moves out :) You said 'chance at.' I dont understand how it doesnt become a 2 year uncontested thing. do you mean if she files for the 1100 she cannot contest the D? I'm lost. I assume she can leave, file for 1100 then protest the D and of course the property settlement

--------------------
call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.


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