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tired123
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divorce or not to?
      #185371 - 03/09/08 09:55 PM (96.234.73.234)
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Hello everyone,
I have a big dilema here. My husband and I go through some very big mess. He is 100% workaholic,owns fast growing successful business , so I guess that's the way it is. Lately we have poor comunication, and lack of interest in each other - both too tired at the end of a day, + we have some other issues.
I said a few times maybe we shoud consider a divorce, did not mean it, just tried to send a signal - we have to make some changes or...
Now I'm in situation would not wish to anyone - being served with papers, or have another option - to sign a postnuptial. I don't want to divorce, since kids are involved and we still have feelings for each other, but my self respect does not let me go forward with signing postuptial, we did not have any PREnuptials, so now, 3 kids later - postnuptial???? Give me a break! That breaks my heart. And maybe I should not be upset at all and just go forward with responding to divorce, since my husband ask me the other day - "did it hurt to be served with divorce papers?" or " I'm sorry" ???? Maybe I'm full of illusions what he loves me at all,even though he repetedly swears on that. I'm very very confused and need your thoughts on this situation , thank you.


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EmergeAnew
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: tired123]
      #185392 - 03/09/08 11:48 PM (67.174.26.11)
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Im confused, did he serve you with divorce papers or not? And he probably just wants you to sign postnuptials becuase you keep throwing around the divorce word.

And if he served you with divorce papers already dont sign anything. Ugh what a mess, even if he didnt serve you at this point I still wouldnt want to sign anything without a plan at recovering your marriage.

Maybe something like I will consider signing if we can first attending marriage counseling and work on repairing our marriage.

Being too tired is no excuse to not pay attention to the things your marriage needs to be successful. You cant get up every morning and say, ah im too tired to take care of the kids, or im too tired to go to work, you would get fired, and what would happen to your kids with no parents to care for them. Well what happens to a marriage that isnt cared for.....down the tubes.

The decision is yours tiredone. Either put some caffiene back in your marriage and give it the attention that it needs. Find ways to work with your husband and make things good again. OR well....that unfortunate word you have been throwing around will not be much of a choice at all.

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You must be the change you wish to see - Mahatma Gandhi


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KGrow
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: tired123]
      #185403 - 03/10/08 01:01 AM (24.8.144.220)
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A post nuptial agreement signed under duress (threat of divorce) will not be valid.

I would ask your husband what it is he wants. Does he want a divorce? How would a post nuptial improve the marriage? Is he worried about having to give you half his business in divorce? (he should be)

Edited by KGrow (03/10/08 01:12 AM)


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mfergel
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: tired123]
      #185433 - 03/10/08 07:59 AM (171.159.192.10)
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Well, sounds like you could still work things out, but a word of advice..........as a guy who's had it done to him in the past, don't throw out the "D" word and expect someone to suddenly jump up and down for joy and make changes for the better. All you've done now is pissed him off. Telling someone you want a divorce (even though you don't) is not something you can take back. You've set the stage for this behavior. You both have a problem with communication and making time for each other. Will you be too tired for someone else? Are you too tired for the kids? Is losing a half hour of sleep a night worth it if it means saving the relationship?

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tired123
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: tired123]
      #185445 - 03/10/08 08:39 AM (96.234.73.234)
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I'm tired of him not hearing me, I know it was not the best choice to through D word there and there, but if person promises you to make a change - let say not to lie, and it goes on and on - finally you go to the limit, that what happened in our marriage. And I don't paint myself as an angel either. But since I'm direct and can not tolerate dishonesty I expect same from my partner. I've lost trust in him, he doesn't trust me .
And yes, he already served me with papers, I already have my appt. w/lawyer set up, but I just need some thoughts from others , and my heart is breaking, I thought I'd be way stronger at this situation, but appears to be oposite, I'm scared . But again - I could not go that low and sign a postup, and he is PUSHING me to sign. I'm sure would be a question why I'm so against signing an agreement - just because, like I said, when person had lied numerous times in the past, it makes me think as soon as I'd sign he would go forward with divorce at some point anyway.
He wants to purchace a very expensive house in the area we live, and has a successful business, so I feel like he is concern only about how to protect the money, he doesn't talk about any counceling , it would be possible only when I SIGN a postnup.
It's a mess... We divorcing just because I do not sign, all about money. Kids - they absolutely support me and when he pushes me to sign - they are absolutely stunned how their father is over protective and hungry for his money. I don't think they even going to miss him a lot...
Thank you all for your advices, I appreciate that.


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mfergel
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: tired123]
      #185449 - 03/10/08 09:13 AM (171.159.192.10)
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Right, but when he said he would quit lying, etc., under what conditions were the terms made? Did you say, "I want a divorce unless you quite lying, etc?"

Ultimately, a couples class or counseling is needed here.

I came across this article sometime back. It really nails the situation that occured with my wife and I. Perhaps this is what is going on in your marriage as well.


More than a million marriages will end in divorce this year in the United States alone. Women will seek two-thirds of them.
Why are women leaving their marriages at twice the rate that men do?

After more than two decades as a marriage therapist, I believe that every married couple should know the answer to that question if they want to divorce-proof their marriage. Here's why wives walk away:

In the early years of marriage, women are usually the primary caretakers of the relationship. They're the ones who take daily temperature checks, asking themselves: "Have we had enough closeness today?" "Are we spending enough time together?" "Do we feel connected emotionally?"

If the answer to these questions is "no," women often pursue more closeness. They tell their husbands, "We never do anything together," or "You never talk to me any more," or "Why do you always put work ahead of me?"

Unfortunately, instead of understanding their wives' need for more closeness, men simply feel as if they're being nagged. So they withdraw emotionally– the opposite of what their wives had hoped would happen.

As a result, women become miserable, and they start to see the rest of their lives with their husbands through jaundiced eyes. They begin complaining about everything under the sun: "I feel like a single parent," or "You're such a couch potato. Why don't you ever lift a finger around the house? I do everything myself" or "You're not going on another golf outing with your buddies, are you?"

Though wives are still only trying to get their spouses' attention, their husbands are likely to recoil further. I've never met a man who wants to spend more time with his wife when he feels nagged.

Planning escape

After months or years of this negative interaction, women finally surrender. They tell themselves, "I've tried everything. He's not going to change, no matter what I do. Divorce has got to be better than this."

With that, women plan their escapes.

Now the interesting thing is that the escape plan usually hinges on a particular event that may take years to materialize. For example, women tell themselves, "I'll leave my husband when the kids leave home," or "I'll get a divorce when I go back to school and learn new skills so I can support myself" or "I'm going to meet another man and as soon as I do, I'll be out of here."

In the months or years that follow, women give up trying to fix the marriage and stop complaining completely. Unaware of what's really going on, their husbands think, "No news is good news," and proceed with their lives, business as usual.

That explains why, when women finally break the news of the impending divorce, their shocked husbands reply, "I had no idea you were unhappy! Why didn't you tell me?"

With that response, the marital coffin is nailed shut. These wives can't believe how little their husbands know about their souls.

The sad part is that when most men finally understand the depth of their wives' unhappiness … they're willing to do backflips to keep their marriages together.


The sad part is that when most men finally understand the depth of their wives' unhappiness, they genuinely want to make changes in themselves. They're willing to do backflips to keep their marriages together. They're finally ready to do the kind of intensive soul-searching that makes marriages great.

But by that point, these wives have built walls around themselves that are impervious to men's genuine willingness to change. The marriages enter the danger zone.

Getting back on course

If you're a woman who fits this description, please don't give up. I've seen so many men make substantial personal changes after they truly understand how unhappy their wives had been.

Sometimes men are slow to catch on. But when they do, their determination to turn things around can be astounding. So give your husband another chance. Let him prove to you that things can be different.

It will take time for you to believe that the changes are real. That's understandable. Be patient. Keep your family together.

Divorce isn't a simple answer. It causes unimaginable pain and suffering. It takes an enormous amount of energy to face each day. Why not take this energy and learn some new skills and make your marriage what you've wanted it to be for so long?

Speaking of new skills, consider this: Men often hear actions more clearly than words.

So when things get tough, if you want to get through to a man, stop talking and do something. I know one woman, who after years of pleading, cajoling and talking, finally got her husband to fix the back stairs to their porch by grabbing his toolkit and starting the project herself. Within minutes, he was by her side critiquing her endeavors and taking over the job.

Also, it's essential that you don't let things build up before you take action. Get moving long before you feel like throwing in the towel.

If you're a man reading this, and your wife has been complaining or nagging, thank her. It means she still cares about you and your marriage. She's working hard to make your love stronger.

So spend time with her. Talk to her. Ask her about her day. Talk about goals, dreams, plans. Listen to her. Compliment her. Pay attention. Take her seriously. Show her that she's the most important thing in the world to you. Don't take your marriage or wife for granted.

If your wife no longer seems open to you when you reach out, don't give up just yet. On the other hand, don't crowd her. Don't push. That will only make matters worse.

If she feels pressured, she'll become a walkaway wife. But if you demonstrate that you can change, you might gradually convince her to give your marriage another try.

--------------------
Damn it's good to laugh again.


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tired123
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: tired123]
      #185458 - 03/10/08 09:57 AM (96.234.73.234)
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I fully understand my mistakes I've made and responsible for that, definately got the lesson. But lets take this case if I sign an agreement - it basically means he scared me to the point I got that low and did it, and I can picture how proud he would be of it, everybody would know "who is the boss". It just upsets me, because I think I would destroy a great deal of my self respect adding points to his self esteem and what happens if at some point he wants a divorce? What protects me and my children's future? I don't see it fair at all..

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mfergel
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: tired123]
      #185459 - 03/10/08 10:04 AM (171.159.192.10)
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That I can't say as far as your future. At this point, you have to convince him that the marriage is worth saving. He may think you want a divorce regardless and is protecting himself. You feel by not signing you're protecting yourself. Kind of a vicious circle. I don't want to sound harsh, but if you never really wanted a divorce, you should have never used that word. Personally, I think it's one of the most powerful words in the world and you can never take it back. Your marriage at this point will require some heavy work from both of you because at this point, he most likely has a real grudge. Convincing him to see a counselor is going to be near impossible. You might be able to convince him by getting the ball rolling and seeing one on your own. Letting him know why you are seeing one and what you hope to accomplish. Maybe after a few sessions you can convince him to go as well. You might also be able to convince him to go to couples class. Maybe if you let him know that you just want to understand him better.

You may have to give in a little bit more than you'd like to at this point.

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Damn it's good to laugh again.


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tired123
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: tired123]
      #185464 - 03/10/08 10:27 AM (96.234.73.234)
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Just to add "it's unfair" - as example let's say now his business is worth one price, it grows and expands very successfully , so in 10 years or so, doing the math, you shoud get an idea what numbers would be then. And if divorce happens because he wants it - I go away with just a bit, what we have divided today, how about all the things I'd do day to day - taking care of the place we live, raising children alone( he's busy ALL the time), since I'd sign "what's your's in the future is not mine".Is my trying to keep family together and all the things I do worth anything ?Or it would be just a "nice try" ? I don't know how it benefits me, a homemaker, at this situation. I know it's just my desicion, but I'm at this point -having limited time to sign divorce papers, or to go with postnup. I'm going through hell right now. Thanks to everyone giving me a thought:)

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mfergel
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: tired123]
      #185467 - 03/10/08 10:38 AM (171.159.192.10)
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I'm sorry about that, but divorce sucks. My wife wants a divorce, I have to pay child support. Guess what, I go from living in a really nice 3000 sq ft home in a nice neighborhood to an old 1500 sq ft home built in 1962. She's getting a brand new townhouse that's even nicer than our current house, of course with the help of my child support payments. She's been getting raises that far outpace mine. Other than reducing the amount of my child support, do you think I will see an improvement in my life because of that?

I'm not trying to be harsh and others may give different advice and opinions. If the post-nup is not something you want to sign and neither one of you is going to go to counseling, than you may have no choice but to file divorce now.

When it comes to divorce, it's probably safe to say that neither side gets what they feels is 'fair'. Right now, he's probably saying 'I bust my butt by working 10-12 hour days to give my family the best things in life, allow my wife to stay at home and do whatever and this is the thanks I get?' Maybe the problem is that neither one of you fully appreciates what the other is doing because you have no idea what the other is doing. The relationship started down a path that is now headed out of control. Going to take more work to get it back than it did to get to where it is now.

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mistake#2
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: tired123]
      #185508 - 03/10/08 01:18 PM (71.100.11.137)
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I'd sign a post nup .... IF .... and here's a big IF ...if it spelled out exactly what he intended for my part in the relationship was to be and how I was going to be compensated for that. In plain terms, if I'm to be caretaker of kids & house along with my part-time job while he works endless hours building a business that wouldn't be possible without my support at home...how am I to be compensated for that? My husband is into real estate and rentals...if he were to ask me to sign a post-nup, I would want to know how much work he wanted me to continue to do at the rentals and how I was going to be compensated for that...same with purchasing new properties, if I'm putting my time into that...if I'm taking care of the house & kids 24/7 while he pursues that than how would I be compensated. Right now we share in our responsibilities and maybe it's not always shared equally but we are both working together toward a common goal. If that common goal changes, than so should either the amount of responsibility or the amount of compensation.

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Ang22007
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: mistake#2]
      #185655 - 03/10/08 08:22 PM (68.42.37.11)
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Mistake has good points, but I would be so offended by even being asked (let alone be pressured) to sign a post nup! I actually don't think I had ever heard of one. You guys are supposed to be a team, working toward the same goals! I think him threatening an either or signals he wants a divorce but wants to protect his assets before hand. I don't like it tired, I am so sorry.

I wish you the best.


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Jada
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: mfergel]
      #185690 - 03/10/08 10:35 PM (69.115.64.195)
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Quote:

I'm sorry about that, but divorce sucks. My wife wants a divorce, I have to pay child support. Guess what, I go from living in a really nice 3000 sq ft home in a nice neighborhood to an old 1500 sq ft home built in 1962. She's getting a brand new townhouse that's even nicer than our current house, of course with the help of my child support payments. She's been getting raises that far outpace mine. Other than reducing the amount of my child support, do you think I will see an improvement in my life because of that?

I'm not trying to be harsh and others may give different advice and opinions. If the post-nup is not something you want to sign and neither one of you is going to go to counseling, than you may have no choice but to file divorce now.

When it comes to divorce, it's probably safe to say that neither side gets what they feels is 'fair'. Right now, he's probably saying 'I bust my butt by working 10-12 hour days to give my family the best things in life, allow my wife to stay at home and do whatever and this is the thanks I get?' Maybe the problem is that neither one of you fully appreciates what the other is doing because you have no idea what the other is doing. The relationship started down a path that is now headed out of control. Going to take more work to get it back than it did to get to where it is now.





He filed for divorce. That says a lot about what his intentions are.

Right now, you are in a better position than he is, settlement wise, and his attorney has probably told him that.

He is looking at alimony (how long depends on how long you have been married), child support (you are clearly the primary caretaker), having to give you at least half of all assets, including half the value of the business (if the business existed before you got married, then it is the half of the increase in value since the marriage). And this is in a community property state. If you live in an equitable distribution state, you could end up with more than half.

He's trying to prevent that by getting you to sign a postnup. He will probably temporarily drop the divorce. But then file again, using the post-nup that he is trying to coerce you into signing against you getting your share of the marital assets.


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tired123
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Re: divorce or not to? [Re: tired123]
      #185821 - 03/11/08 12:55 PM (96.234.73.234)
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That's my worst scenario - he can file for divorce as soon as we divide all the assets. It's so hard to think this way about the person you thought is your "better half"... such a BS.
I'm just glad to have you guys, giving me some great thoughts and at some point opening my eyes as well. Still I'm so confused, scared and at the same time still have a little hope what he could be really upset and just wants to protect himself for some time giving me a lesson,making sure I'm not gonna toss that word over again, fell like I'm divided into half myself...That sucks completely.


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