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faith4two
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Re: What goes around comes around.... [Re: Samsung]
      #187004 - 03/15/08 08:24 AM (66.169.163.142)
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Samsung, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

The promise I made was, "If I know about it, I'll be there." I haven't broken that promise. I didn't know about her doctor's appointment until after-the-fact.

And no, I'm not limiting HIS time. The one instance I referred to related to picking her up at school was for two hours at most, and from what I've read about ROFR, there is a minimum time of absence that goes along with an ROFR agreement.

Since there is no ROFR in place by HIS choice, I'm exercising the option to allow my child to spend time with a grandmother she doesn't see but a few times a year, which if there HAD been an ROFR in place, she would not have gotten due to his manipulation tactics.

I wish I could see the black and white of your post, but I just don't. And of the parenting books I've read, they put disclaimers early in the text about how the book is NOT intended for extreme cases of manipulative parents and how to beat THOSE odds. There's only so many cases they can cover, and it's more about mainstream parents who CAN put their differences aside and come to a reasonable solution.

Unfortunately, my STBX feels that no one is a better influence on our child than him and his family, in spite of publication after publication after publication that cites the child is a product of BOTH parents and the most healthy solution, when there isn't abuse involved, is for the child to maintain relationships with BOTH sides of the family.


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saamrodi
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Re: What goes around comes around.... [Re: saamrodi]
      #187031 - 03/15/08 11:01 AM (24.32.252.253)
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ROFR it may be on paper, but keeping her from him out of spite or just not allowing him to have her when he wants to keep her will only breed more resentment towards you from him. Therefore, when it comes time that he cant have her and you would like to have her...he'll find somebody else... so-called "payback".


------------> I knew that ROFR was not ordered and I reread my reply...I made an error in my post. I meant to say "ROFR may NOT be on paper". My mistake...hopefully that makes more sense to the point I was trying to make.

:)

--------------------
"...And what a beautiful mess this is
It's like picking up trash in dresses..."

Edited by saamrodi (03/15/08 11:03 AM)


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saamrodi
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Re: What goes around comes around.... [Re: saamrodi]
      #187033 - 03/15/08 11:38 AM (24.32.252.253)
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Ive read everything so far, so I just want to expand on my original post in support as you have supported me :)


- No ROFR ordered...because he didnt want it
- Ironic NOW?....yes, legally he has screwed himself in not getting as much time as possible with his child
- Should orders be followed to a T ALWAYS? No, I really dont hold that belief if there could be benefits especially for the child.


Yes, he failed himself and his child by refusing ROFR, but I dont see why the child should be put with someone else when he is wanting her EVEN if this was his decision. Its legally fine to place her somewhere else, but an injustice overall to your child to do so. I understand that you want her to have time with your mother and to be there at the hospital, but I really think keeping her from him like that will only make things worse in the future Faith. It really will. He may be stubborn and thinking of himself, but to use his ill decision of not having ROFR to keep his child from him is just as stubborn hun.

This cycle will only continue. He is legally and ironically paying for his refusal to have this placed in the orders, but it will become just as ironically painful for you and your daughter if you dont compromise outside of orders when it wont harm the child. It will become an even more vicious cycle if the two of you continue to deny time to each other just because of orders and in the long run, your daughter will look back at this and think it was childish on both your ends.

Try to incorporate time with the grandmother and her being there for the birth WHILE he has her. Let her spend this time with him because he wants it, but use the orders to make him have her there at the hospital for the most important part. Compromise....it has to start SOMEWHERE.

As for the appointment.....I can understand if you couldnt get her in other than on his time but that is just how it is. Legally he didnt do anything wrong by taking her and nothing physically harmful by making sure you got her medicine.

How do you keep from bashing STBX...her father....in front of her?

Dont set the situation up or make promises you may not be able to keep. This is the reality of divorce and parenting time rules. You KNOW that just like during your time...his time is his time, so dont promise your child that you will be there everytime if possible. Tell her that you can always be there on your time. Other than that, you dont know but that her dad is capable of taking care of her just like you can and that she can tell you about everything when she is back home....that even though you may not always be able to be at the place she is at but that you are always there for later.

He could have compromised and allowed you to know and then enabled you to be there like you wanted to be...but where is the compromising going to start....when neither side is willing to take that step forward?

He may never.....oblige your efforts of working around the orders, but thats where you can make sure that she can experience some important times with you and your family because he refused the ROFR yet you can still hold your head up high in the future....for you daughter that you gave her all the possible time with her father.

If you dont....I PROMISE...she WILL see this in the future and figure out that two stubborn people were not thinking of HER. Dont allow yourself to be included in this view that she WILL have of her father refusing you time per orders.

Good luck and good long clear long-term thinking on this one hun.

--------------------
"...And what a beautiful mess this is
It's like picking up trash in dresses..."


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faith4two
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Re: What goes around comes around.... [Re: saamrodi]
      #187090 - 03/15/08 06:05 PM (66.169.163.142)
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Why should the child be put with someone else during the time I'm hospitalized?

> It's her maternal grandmother, who she has spent less than 12 hours with in the last 365 days. She spends no less than 24 hours a MONTH with her paternal grandparents, as he was motivated to have happen when he refused ROFR.

My mom is not coming here to see ME, but to see her two granddaughters. Even an ROFR in mere honor and parental courtesy, not a court ordered one, runs the risk that my mom has travelled 800+ miles for half of what she expected.
And our daughter deserves to have that time with her maternal grandparent just as much as she does the paternal.

I have chosen to not utilize ROFR one time, the ONLY time I was faced with the decision in the past year. It hasn't been an issue otherwise. And the stink which was made of it, which I can only assume involved manipulation of the school employees, was done in a rather public showing so that he could prove how big his b*lls are. A discreet phonecall to me to say "ya know, I've reconsidered the ROFR, and would you let me step in this time?"

I've tried to comprimise on numerous occasions. The half dozen attempts at extending an olive branch have resulted in him taking it, stripping the leaves off, and beating me unmercifully with it. If it's not court ordered, he has refused to cooperate and/or manipulated the terms at the last minute making it impossible to work with him.

Ever heard the saying "Screw me once, damn you. Screw me twice, damn me"? How about "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Not a single member of this forum would recommend that I submit to an abuser, an alcoholic, or a drug addict - those who exhibit the same self-serving behaviors of my STBX whose own attorney has said more than once that he's a liar and an unreasonable A$$. The STBX just shrugs and walks out of the room.

I've been left with the fallout to try and make the best of the situation, meaning I have to remove the hot buttons of ROFR and paternity from the equation when making my decisions. It's damn painful, and I do NOT do this out of spite, or to create additional animosity. I'm left with few choices, the lesser of two evils. And it's NOT about me. If it were, I wouldn't take the time to set things up the way I have, but would have made the call to the STBX to say "come get her."

And the notion that he wants that time, no, he hasn't requested it. He hasn't spoken of the pregnancy or upcoming birth to me, and/or the impact it might have on our parenting schedule. If he was THAT concerned, he'd pick up a phone. No, he's waiting to make a public spectacle of it. That's been par for this course.

As such, my decisions involve my daughter's explicity expresssed desires to be involved in the welcoming of her baby sister, and about ensuring she has continued exposure to MY family. She deserves that much in lieu of the drama the STBX thrives upon.


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saamrodi
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Re: What goes around comes around.... [Re: faith4two]
      #187091 - 03/15/08 06:12 PM (24.32.252.253)
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I was under the impression from the original post that he would be wanting the time with her during the hospitalization. 800 miles is a long way to drive, but why doesnt she visit more often than just a few hours a year or vice-versa?

Overall, I was hoping to come off as just making some suggeestions to help. You know your situation best, and theres only so much you can do. As for him turning things into public spectacles.....your talking about my ex as well. Let him make an azz of himself because thats all he'll show.

--------------------
"...And what a beautiful mess this is
It's like picking up trash in dresses..."


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faith4two
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Re: What goes around comes around.... [Re: saamrodi]
      #187113 - 03/15/08 09:38 PM (66.169.163.142)
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The email in the original post that I referenced was written by his attorney's legal assistant, had an incorrect name of the school in the subject line, was cc'ed to the school director and had absolutely nothing to do with a genuine desire to care for our daughter, but to list a host of false accusations and all out libel against the party I had named to pick up our daughter. "I forbid this to happen." A simple phonecall to say "let's talk about this" would have covered the same territory without the school's involvement.

Had that been an isolated incident and not one of a grocery list of stunts he's pulled, and I would be much more inclined to maintain an optimistic outlook on being able to work with him. But there are too many lies, too many false accusations, too many agreements that he's redefined at the last minute to suit his purposes, and overall just too much B.S. to run the risk of sticking my hand in the lion's mouth to only have it mangled.

Soooo, the STBX has not been informed of any details regarding the baby's arrival other than what I've shared with our daughter in order to set HER expectations appropriately. It is NOT his child, therefore not his business. If he can't do the math on gestation, and he's that ingorant to NOT notice my SIZE, that's NOT my problem.

Mom is not driving, but flying on a non-rev buddy pass from the airline my step-brother works for. She is semi-retired from a corporate gig, and has a few internet businesses that she works at to supplement her fixed income. When she can coordinate a layover and/or conference/convention in our metro area, she has tacked on a few extra days to those trips in years leading up to last year.

Last year is when the STBX and I separated, and the one opportunity she had to make those advanced plans was too far in advance to predict court dates, outcomes and/or whether or not the three day rotation would still be in effect so that she could even see the child while she was here.

The twelve hours our daughter has seen my mom in the past year is in reference to the holiday schedule I tried to set up 2.5 months prior to Thanksgiving which was ignored by the STBX and his attorney. STBX's non-response was such that the three-day rotation stood for the entire holiday season, and if we were to see my family AT ALL, we had no choice but to take a 15 hour drive to get there, spend 36 hours at my sister's (2.5 hours from my hometown), and drive 15 hours to get back. My mom was able to spend all of about twelve hours with our daughter during that timeframe.

I'm being induced two weeks early out of medical necessity. I agonized about whether or not to schedule the induction on my parenting time or his, the logistical hurdles we'd have to overcome if we did choose to do it on my parenting time, etc.

During all that worry about what to do, the child made it VERY clear she wanted to be there during the actual BIRTH. I'm still mulling over the pros/cons of having her in the delivery room and leaning heavily against it. But her unsolicited announcement that she wanted to be there was a tremendous factor in going the extra mile on making the plans we've made. Her sheer joy about becoming a big sister has been baffling.

Last year was a living hell. I could go down a grocery list of stunt after stunt after stunt he's pulled with a variety of entities to intimidate, bully and control me. He won't speak directly to me. He won't call me to have a discussion. He has spent tens of thousands of dollars to bog things down, and/or try and press bogus contempt charges upon me. He has done anything and everything he can think of to wear me down.

In spite of all of it, I got clean, I stood up for myself and I decided the only one who was going to put a STOP to the nonsense was ME. Once I did, things have taken a very different turn, not just in the legal realm, but more importantly, in my confidence as a parent.

While my decisions may not have been the best by the general consensus view, I am able to live with them and look myself in the mirror that I've done everything I can in spite of my half-cocked pre-separation decisions. My priorities in life are focused on my daughter in her unique situation, not on the STBX's bully pulpit of persuasion.

My attorney is my lifeline and has a reputation in the courtroom of being "Mother Theresa in Drag." He's able to create enough speculation with substantive, but not necessarily HARD, evidence so well that his reputation carries him the rest of the way. And that has been much to my advantage. I don't lift a finger, make a call, send an email on what I perceive could become even the remotest issue without calling him first to discuss the potential legal outcomes and whether or not it's something he can defend in the courtroom.

And HE is the one who has more or less been beating it into my head for the past several months "while it might not be on the top of my list of recommendations, your STBX has no legal basis to do what he's doing. Do what you need to do for your family, quit taking on guilt that isn't yours to take on, and I can argue it reasonably in court." This is coming from a man who when I stepped into his office the first time, I think he was a bit intimidated by the details of the case, but in the past year, he has seen firsthand what I deal with and has taken to it like a dog on a bone, in spite of our moral compasses sometimes pointing in very different directions. I had to educate him on a few very intimate things early on that he had never encountered in his eighteen years of practice! LOL

The bottom line is that spite is at the bottom of my list of priorities. Oh, I have my moments where I have secret fantasies of seeing my STBX become some big burly man's biotch in federal prison for the crimes he's committed in the name of "the best interest of the child," I have opted to share as little information as possible, shown my willingness to cooperate in a few small gestures, and just wait patiently for the noose he's tied to tighten up once and for all.


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