stoltz
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Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1478
Loc: Texas
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So it begs the question ... If one or more of these kids ends up committing suicide trying to "fit in" (since the state won't provide them with any kind of essential psychological support they need - only plop them into a foster home), would the state be guilty of murder?
Bah! Who cares ... They did their job and got a pat on the back. Next!
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chatter box
Platinum
Reged: 11/09/07
Posts: 1146
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So, now you know the state isn't providing psychological support! You should come set in the lobby of my daughters psych office and see all the kids that come in with foster parents. You never answerd my questions about what actions you would expect in an abuse case.
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taryn
Platinum
Reged: 05/31/07
Posts: 2031
Loc: Hell...but im coming back up, ...
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i think children in foster care are provided medical insurance which DOES cover therapy.
did the news reports state the kids are NOT getting any counceling?
i cant imagine that to be the case....
either way,
THIS is such a sad senario.
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taryn.
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stoltz
Platinum
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1478
Loc: Texas
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I agree. It IS sad.
Did anyone see Dateline on Sunday? I caught the last 5 mins or so where the segment was dealing with this issue. Here is a link to the segment, including a transcript:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24341780/
Again, I only caught the tail end of it, but Texas' AG Greg Abbott would only say that its the Texas Law and that if it turns out untrue then they'll be placed back with their families. He added, "This happens every day."
In light of this case, that isn't just sad, but scary. As one of the attornies said (echoing my words earlier in this post):
"I can't imagine any other community in the United States that would stand for this. I can't imagine any individual mother that would stand for this. Imagine someone coming into your home, rounding you up, taking your child, putting you in this building, never giving you any type of piece of paper that says why your children have been taken away."
... and, as another spokeperson for the community said ...
"What the state is saying by taking away every child of these people is, if you're a member of this religion, we don't care what you think. It's such overkill. It's such cruelty to tear these families apart. It's unconstitutional and it's inhumane."
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taryn
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Reged: 05/31/07
Posts: 2031
Loc: Hell...but im coming back up, ...
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stoltz,
i agree. kids are just NEVER (or at least rarely)
taken from families without VERY just cause.
i still think there MUST be much more to this case,
but it's not being made public.
regardless, these kids are innocent victims of whatever is going on.
heartbreaking.
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taryn.
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stoltz
Platinum
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1478
Loc: Texas
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The thing that has me worried is that Greg Abbott (like his predecessor, John Cornyn, who is now a Texas Senator) got elected to Texas AG on the highly emotional "the best interest of the child" ticket. Both campaigned heavily in "defense of the children" and it paid off for them big time. It sickens me because they don't really care about the children so much as they do their own careers. Cornyn had a short stint as Texas AG before using it as a springboard to something bigger (US Senator), and he helped his (Republican) friend Abbott get his position of Texas AG by doing the same crap.
Perhaps if they both had such strong feeling for the welfare of Texas children, they'd adopt several of these "poor" polygamist children. But I don't see that happening.
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chatter box
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Reged: 11/09/07
Posts: 1146
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Not saying it was or wasn't justified but just how many laws did someone or everyone need to brake before the actions taken would be ok.
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jbar
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Reged: 12/16/06
Posts: 970
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===========================================================
Not saying it was or wasn't justified but just how many laws did someone or everyone need to brake before the actions taken would be ok.
===========================================================
You know, people talk so much about how all of this was done for the "good of the children", but I have come to see it in just the opposite light: the conditions under which they lived in the FLDS community were, in my view, actually more for their real good, than the conditions they are finding themselves in with the foster parents with whom they live now.
What do I mean?
1. In the religious community, they had no TV's or computer games. Now they will see the standard 5000 murders before they are twelve, learn how to use guns and knives and that there are people who hate each other and, apparently, are supposed to. The computer games will train them to "hone their reflexes" to use against that "pig" who will inevitably, someday, try to grab their "stash"
2. In the community they learned only "the three R's" plus respectful, religious songs and music. No doubt they will, now, soon be hearing --and even learning--the same vile "rap" music which daily accosts my own ears, and which I believe must be from Hell. Every white man in this music is a "honky muh-fuh"; every female is a "ho"; every black man is a "nigguh"; and every policeman is a "pig" who must be "offed".
3. In the community they learned real work, and useful arts and crafts. Now they will be learning how to "just say no to drugs", how to use condoms, and how to use computers (to watch pornography). They will learn about all of the wonderful accomplishments of people in this country to whom they can relate no more than they could to a martian and, probably, how the founders of their faith were likely only sex-crazed old men, heretics and charlatans. Oh yes, don't forget! They will learn the joys of the use of drugs, alcohol and premarital sex, in addition to how to become a money-mad American consumer, completely controlled and brainwashed by American marketing companies, and even international powers, who try every way possible to control the minds and opinions of Americans through the ever-present media.
4. They will learn, contrary to their own church law prohibiting divorce and, instead, teaching that they will be with their families not only for as long as they live on this earth, but also for Eternity in Heaven, that they will, rather, be with their spouse (and probably children as well) only on this earth and then only until the spouse chooses to divorce them, split up the family, and grab all of their hard earned assets they can--and to do their own spouses likewise, if given the opportunity.
I ask you, Is being placed in a situation like this REALLY more "in the best interests of the children" than to allow them to stay with their real fathers and mothers?
The law be damned!
Edited by jbar (04/29/08 05:52 AM)
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stoltz
Platinum
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1478
Loc: Texas
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I agree. Last I heard it was some adult woman in Colorado who is being fingered as the "16yr old girl." Thus, perhaps - just maybe - the women and children (and men, but they are always forgotten unless it is something bad) were doing just fine in their own community. Now, the mothers are without their children for who knows how long (maybe permanently) - and that's all based on speculative evidence until the DNA test results come back.
And let's say there WERE SOME minor women who bore children (note: it won't be said in THAT way, but rather minor girls were raped by older men). Does that justify them rounding up ALL 400+ kids and stripping them from their mothers (and fathers)?
This whole thing reeks, IMHO, and I hope once its all said and done the State of Texas ends up with egg (or rather, sh*t) on their face. But I figure what will end up happening instead is that several women will be found to have bore children when they were 16-17yrs old and THAT will be the defining factor - for the State and for the media - and everything else (including some basic constitutional rights for many) will be swept under the rug.
As Abbott even said, it happens every day in the state of Texas.
Scary.
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taryn
Platinum
Reged: 05/31/07
Posts: 2031
Loc: Hell...but im coming back up, ...
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did you guys see the latest information on this case?
'allegedly' (who knows for sure...)
a number of the little boys appear to have been s. abused
and kids have evidence of broken bones.
now...kids DO break bones!
but im still thinking that there is more to this than the public was initially told.
i almost wish the media WOULD be kept in the dark as to what they find...especially if it is physical and s. abuse.
it would be better for these kids IF they have had lives of abuse that the public doesnt even know. they have had and will have enough to deal with without everyone knowing their business.
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taryn.
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