KGrow
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Reged: 01/27/06
Posts: 3153
Loc: Colorado
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Time to start scheduling summer activities. And that means it is also time for KGrow and his ex to stoke up the power struggle over reimbursements for extracurriculars.
Our divorce agreement isn't particularly specific about who pays for extracurriculars. We punted during our original negotiations because we couldn't resolve this. The agreement says extracurriculars are to be paid in proportion to income. It also says that a portion of extracurriculars are presumed to be covered by child support money.
My position: We each pay for extracurriculars that happen on our own time. Cost of shared extracurriculars should be split it in proportion to that time (typically 50-50). My child support payments provide the in-proportion-to-income piece for both types.
Her position: We each pay for extracurriculars that happen on our own time (child support payments cover the in-proportion-to-income piece here). Cost of shared extracurriculars should be split it in proportion to income.
I guess I have to resign myself to expecting lower reimbursemnt than I request and dole out the same for her. The amount of money is not huge. It is all a bunch of of absurdity. Often it gets a bit messy as we jockey to have the other to write the check and thus get an opportunity to stiff them on the reimbursement.
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gigi
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Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5051
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That's frustrating to READ about. I'm sure being involved is a real pain in the neck. The only place where you still have wiggle room to mess with each other, I guess. Some day, where there's no so many years left to deal with it, maybe you could just surprise her and hand her the check she wants, brush off your hands and count the house not used in calculating and arguing about it as pure profit on the whole stupid mess. It would be almost fun to be able to write a check if the stupid arguments demanding MORE would just stop!
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mistake#2
Platinum
Reged: 07/19/06
Posts: 3214
Loc: Florida
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[quote]Time to start scheduling summer activities. And that means it is also time for KGrow and his ex to stoke up the power struggle over reimbursements for extracurriculars.
Our divorce agreement isn't particularly specific about who pays for extracurriculars. We punted during our original negotiations because we couldn't resolve this. The agreement says extracurriculars are to be paid in proportion to income. It also says that a portion of extracurriculars are presumed to be covered by child support money.
My position: We each pay for extracurriculars that happen on our own time. Cost of shared extracurriculars should be split it in proportion to that time (typically 50-50). My child support payments provide the in-proportion-to-income piece for both types.
Her position: We each pay for extracurriculars that happen on our own time (child support payments cover the in-proportion-to-income piece here). Cost of shared extracurriculars should be split it in proportion to income.
I guess I have to resign myself to expecting lower reimbursemnt than I request and dole out the same for her. The amount of money is not huge. It is all a bunch of of absurdity. Often it gets a bit messy as we jockey to have the other to write the check and thus get an opportunity to stiff them on the reimbursement. [/quote]
Well it sounds like it should be proportionate to income for the ones that are shared...usually that's the same for uncovered medical expenses as well, where your percentage of responsibility is in proportion to your income. What type of percentage difference are we talking about?
My 1st ex pays $50 per year for extra curriculars (my sons athletic shoes cost more), however he pays 100% of med co-pays. 2nd ex doesn't pay for ANY extracurriculars. However he is ordered to pay 68% of ANY uncovered medical costs (and I include down to vitamins and maxi pads to his list as they are medical)...so if we had the same split in extras he'd be paying 68% to my 32%, based upon income differences that the court counts (his is actually higher but he was able to hide income, and mine is actually lower as I was imputed full-time income although I work part-time due partially to the medical needs of our son).
So why bother with the power struggle? Just pay the proportionate to income if it's not that big of a difference...
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Down
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Reged: 12/19/06
Posts: 449
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Sounds like a nightmare but at least you end up figuring something out. My X doesn't pay a cent for extras, I pay it all regardless of who's time it's on.
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chatter box
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Reged: 11/09/07
Posts: 1237
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you know I think this is one thing I really wouldn't care if she paid or not. To me it's just not worth it. Of course she would like our daughter to be in a very expencive tumbling class but doesn't want to help pay for any of that.
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Jada
Platinum
Reged: 06/02/07
Posts: 3333
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[quote]Time to start scheduling summer activities. And that means it is also time for KGrow and his ex to stoke up the power struggle over reimbursements for extracurriculars.
Our divorce agreement isn't particularly specific about who pays for extracurriculars. We punted during our original negotiations because we couldn't resolve this. The agreement says extracurriculars are to be paid in proportion to income. It also says that a portion of extracurriculars are presumed to be covered by child support money.
My position: We each pay for extracurriculars that happen on our own time. Cost of shared extracurriculars should be split it in proportion to that time (typically 50-50). My child support payments provide the in-proportion-to-income piece for both types.
Her position: We each pay for extracurriculars that happen on our own time (child support payments cover the in-proportion-to-income piece here). Cost of shared extracurriculars should be split it in proportion to income.
I guess I have to resign myself to expecting lower reimbursemnt than I request and dole out the same for her. The amount of money is not huge. It is all a bunch of of absurdity. Often it gets a bit messy as we jockey to have the other to write the check and thus get an opportunity to stiff them on the reimbursement. [/quote]
The only part of the court order that is vague is the amount that is considered to be part of child support.
The reimbursement part is crystal clear. It's not 50/50, it's in proportion to your incomes. Meaning the one who makes more pays more.
The problem is the vagueness of what is included in child support.
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KGrow
Platinum
Reged: 01/27/06
Posts: 3153
Loc: Colorado
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[quote]The problem is the vagueness of what is included in child support.[/quote]
Yes that's exactly right. When we were negotiating this, I said, "Why do I have to pay for this separately when it is one of the stated purposes of child support?"
Her response, "I've seen the numbers, child support is not enough to actually support the children."
And I say, "Well that's because you also need to kick in and do your part to support the children. You also have a financial responsibility to them."
Her response, "No, I stay home and you bring me money. That's how it's always worked. There's no way an intelligent, college-educated person like my self can earn real money."
This was clearly going nowhere good so we put what we had into the agreement and moved on to other issues.
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KGrow
Platinum
Reged: 01/27/06
Posts: 3153
Loc: Colorado
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[quote]It would be almost fun to be able to write a check if the stupid arguments demanding MORE would just stop![/quote]
I do take this approach when buying clothes and school supplies etc. I should sit down and figure out exactly how much money were talking about her.
Power struggles manage to perpetuate themselves. They don't really need to be about an issue of import to continue. If I were giving myself advice, I'd say, "The quickest way to end a power struggle is to surrender. Surrendering and losing are different things."
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gigi
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Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5051
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My concern about surrendering when the kids are young is setting a precedent for this to continue in virtual perpetuity. It would make tons of snese to surrender when they're about to graduate high school and the child support order end date is in sight.
But my husband's ex would take it if we paid for something, and expect us to pay for more. What am I saying? she WOULD take it? She HAS taken it. We pay for this, that, the other thing. We had extra written into the child support formula to specifically go JUST to the extracurriculars, and he gave her extra early on to take care of things, outside of the child support agency so that it didn't get onto their account books even though it officially does count according to the court... and so we're abotu $2000 ahead of the actual SUPPORT, but SEVERAL thousand more in gifts to the kids, for camps, clothing, extra classes, special tournament fees, etc. And STILL she says that she needs more.
I KNOW this. When we give a dime, she thinks it means we have more to give. She thinks that next year, when that same expense arises, that we'd better pay it. She runs around telling people we're stingy and abusive and refuse to "support" the children in their activities. She even teaches the kids that the definition of "emotional abuse" is "failure to support their activities". Oh, it's a long, stupid mess.
If paying her off would shut her up and make her relax and stop interfering with parenting time, we'd be happy to do it. Put it on credit cards if we had to.
But it won't.
So, my advice is to figure out how much the difference is, and if it turns otu to be something that you'll be able to deal with every year for the next however many years till the kidsa re grown, then surrender... but if it turns out to be as many thousands as my husband is being asked to kick in (enough to effectively double the price of child support and alimony altogether!) I'd keep up the annual springtime struggle.
But there's no way to make a decision till you have the numbers in your hand. You have an advantage over us in that it seems not to be a nickle here, a dime there, the way it is with us... with a new $300 demand every week, punctuated by a $1000 arrearage in her failure to pay thier dues to thier major sports organizations for a year at a time, arriving about once every other month... for you, if you go over the whole shebang once a year, that's GREAT, becasue you can add it up and it can becoem a budget item rather than just something she expects you to toss a little pocket change at on a daily basis. (yep, she thinks $300 is pocket change, but that's also a whole 'nother story).
If it's possible to figure the numbers, do it first. And THEN decide if the struggle (and the future years worth of this number) is worth it.
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KGrow
Platinum
Reged: 01/27/06
Posts: 3153
Loc: Colorado
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Thanks Gigi. I think doing some math will help me put this into perspective. One missing variable is her income. She's been unwilling to share that with me for reasons unknown. At her insistence, we're still using numbers from 5-1/2 years ago. On a percentage basis, I believe those are reasonably accurate but there is the potential for a surprise down the road.
Edited by KGrow (04/24/08 01:30 PM)
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