Doug22
New
Reged: 04/25/08
Posts: 2
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Hello Everyone-
I'm Doug and live in Illinois. I'll cut to the chase, because I'm thinking I may file for divorce this week. I have been married only 2 1/2 years and have a 16 month old son. My wife had an affair last October with someone that used to work for her. She is in management for a national company. They still work together. This all happened before our son took his first steps. My wife claimed all the cliches about "I've evolved" and "I just wish I loved you like you love me". "You're still a great dad" etc. She also blamed me for supposedly blowing off a counseling request, but I had no clue she was in a state of mind to even consider doing what she did. Yeah, we were bickering, but more like high school kids about dishes and dumb stuff. I think she was simply rationalizing her actions to make herself feel less guilty. Anyway, this was a HUGE stress on me, but we managed to get through it late last year. We attended a few couseling sessions together like she originally wanted, but then it was her decision to stop going. She went a few times on her own as well, but that didn't last long.
She ended up having a subsequent break down months later this past January. She had wanted a divorce again, as I thought things were going well. She admitted her lack of happiness and had become a closet cryer everywhere but in front of me. Then, as fast as she told me she wanted out I told her, "fine, it's back to business and I plan on fighting for primary custody". She then told me she needed help and not to believe anything she said. She was just depressed and asked me to stick with her. I did. A day or two later she had a major panic attack and ended up getting rushed to the hospital. Back on meds.
Things had improved, but out of left field last Friday, she asked if I cared she had "a few drinks" after work. This turned into a 2 AM arrival and she ignored my attempts to contact her. I have been documenting some of her erratic behavior, by the way. She knows it. Two weeks ago she was out of town on business for a week. Last week she had a work emergency and was entrenched in that all week. Then she spent her Friday (usually a family night) getting hammered with the crew at work. She is a very respected manager on the fast track, remarkably. I know much of this may not sound like I have a case for primary custody, so analyze the facts for me. I had a lawyer give me the "well, the court tends to side with the mother..." BUT....after I was done telling him the following he told me I may have a case. (but that was 6 months ago...can I still use the same info, or did I let her slide that the cheating has zero bearing on custody?)
1. My wife went back to work a few weeks early from maternity leave last year. Within a week, she left for a week on business while I took care of my son who ended up with RSV (A nasty respiratory virus) She has been on 7 different business trips since he was born, and I've been running the show solo for about a month and a half of my son's life.
2. For my son's first year, I both dropped him off and picked him up for daycare about 90% of the time. Most of those days I also dressed him and fed him dinner after picking him up. I was seen by many many people as the primary parent already. Not just my supportive family. Babysitters and others noticed her lack of support and/or interest in being a mom.
3. I am a home body. My wife knows it. Her idea of picking up slack when she's not out with friends is to take my son to my in-laws and let them watch him while she goes out again.
4. Her own father has told me he would do the same thing when it comes to me saying I will fight for custody if we end up in divorce court. They have been disgusted with her choices.
5. My wife actually did stay with the guy she had an affair with before I knew what the deal was. She left me to take care of my son.
6. Many many people have seen my wife become withdrawn and show less interest in many things including our son. Unfortunately, she has it in her head that she is a wonderful mother. Don't get me wrong...she loves him dearly, but her actions have not shown she is a responsible parent. Many of us are on meds, but there has been a pattern of a less than stellar thought process on her behalf. She's impulsive.
My ultimate question is: how can I lose primary custody of my son when (even forgetting the infidelity if it doesn't matter) there is no disputing my son has been with me much more than my wife. I've fed him way more. I've driven him to and from daycare most of the time. I've changed more diapers. Etc. Etc.
Please help me and let me know if I'm going to begin a feeble effort and blow a bunch of money. If I go through with this I had intended at ultimately having some of her counterparts at work deposed, including the guy she slept with several times. She is a superior taking advantage of an employee under her supervision. I don't want to shelter her from my son in the least, but I WANT MY NAME ON THE TOP of that piece of paper. She can ask me to see him and let me make some mature decisions for once.
Thanks so much for your advice. If you need more details that I didn't list, let me know. Most of it, I'm realistic, will not matter...but at least you know the background.
Doug
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jbar
Platinum
Reged: 12/16/06
Posts: 940
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From the way you described the situation it sounds to me as if this is a case where, if you were to file on her, you would have to compare how much you might have to lose with how much you might have to gain. If she files on you then you will just have to do the best you can.
One way to figure your risk, is to compare your investment in the "marital property" with hers, as well as your relative incomes. To the extent that hers is greater than yours, in both respects, it could be worth the risk-- but remember that she could still get primary custody and you may have to pay CS. In this event, if there is a house, you may also have to move out but continue paying one-half of the mortgage. If you make a lot less than her she may have to pay you some spousal support or the entire mortgage herself.
If the situation were the same, but you got primary custody, she may have to move out of the house and even pay you some spousal support in addition to CS and one-half of the mortgage. With your having more income and primary custody, again, she would likely be relieved of spousal support or mortgage payments but should still have to pay CS.
All of my comments are based upon the assumption that the law is gender neutral which, of course, in divorce is not always the case. The adultery is not supposed to be considered in property or CP decisions, so I wouldn't necessarily spend the money to depose anyone on this point. Her attorney would object, anyway, and the objection would be sustained. Only testimony of medical experts, or official records, would be considered as far as her mental condition is concerned. I wouldn't file on her, personally, unless I just couldn't stand it any more.
Edited by jbar (04/26/08 01:19 AM)
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Jada
Platinum
Reged: 06/02/07
Posts: 2897
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One thing you don't want to do is move out of the house without your son. And don't let her move out with the kid.
When you file for divorce, file for an ex parte motion asking for temporary custody.
The cheating doesn't matter. Now or then. Don't rely on her parents to testify for you. Blood is thicker than water. They may agree with you, but they will choose their daughter everytime.
What is your work schedule like? Has your stbx stated that she will fight you for custody? How often does she travel due to her work? Keep documenting how often she stays out late. How much time you and she spends with your child.
And get a good attorney.
Edited to add:
Your stbx isn't going to have to ask you to see her child. Regardless of who gets custody, there will be a parenting plan in the court order. If you get custody and refuse to follow it, you will be in contempt of court.
Also, chances are you won't be able to make all of the decisions regarding your child, either. Joint legal is pretty common. What that means is that BOTH of you make the decisions regarding school, religion, childcare, medical decisions. If the two of you can't agree, then you have to go to court and a judge will decide.
Edited by Jada (04/26/08 07:06 AM)
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malone
Platinum
Reged: 12/30/07
Posts: 1682
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A child needs both a father and a mother.
How your wife has hurt you and how she has treated you is really sad. But that is what happens when a marriage fails. People - one party or both, get very hurt.
That should not make one parent want to block the other parent from being a parent to their children. The fact is that a child gets so much from both parents. A father cannot give to a child what a mother can, and a mother cannot give to a child what a father can.
I know this. When my husband and I first separated, I would much rather have tried to gain custody of my two children. My husband actually threatened to do that to me.
Common sense has thankfully prevailed. I am learning how much my children love and need me for myself, and how much they love and need their dad for who he is.
I know you are terribly hurt right now. And I understand your circumstances more than you will ever imagine. But express your anger with your wife's actions to your wife, or better still, to a counsellor. Don't allow your anger to stop your son from having a mother in his life, no matter how much you want to be the main custodian of your child. This is not the best outcome for your child.
Remember that the first months of separation are the most terrible, draining and emotional of all. But when there's children involved, you have the rest of your life and your child's life to think about. You need to stay on child-care terms with your STBX. And no matter how hard it is to do, the time to start that is now. Or you will make things much, much worse than they are already.
I wish you all the best. I know how hard it must be for you.
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Doug22
New
Reged: 04/25/08
Posts: 2
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I appreciate all of your responses. I don't expect to ask her parents to testify for me, but I thought if it ever did go down that road (court) they could be deposed and forced to either lie or tell the truth. They are very good people and love us both. I know it's more to do with their daughter, but I'm not acting like the vengeful angry person. I have communicated a lot with her parents, and they both know what I am putting up with. Maybe I'm gullible, but I think they would tell the truth about their knowledge of her actions and that I've picked up a lot of the slack. My wife has probably gone out/done overnights with friends 10 times in a year. She's cleared it with me, but it is what it is. I've been the one to NEVER go out, let alone overnight. My wife travels, on average, every several months for a week. I also didn't mean to word it as "my wife can ask me to see him". I understand the law/rules on a legal arrangement. I just meant that I'd like to adhere to whatever that is with me as primary parent on paper. IF she wants something additional to those rules I can be the one to allow it or not. I would most likely allow it. I'm not looking to stick it to her. She has always done what she's wanted, but I'm tired of her taking advantage and stretching my limits. No one seems to be moving out, and I'd never be an idiot to abandon my house. She moved everything she had in our bedroom to the guest room. This is the second time she's done that in a month. She can have the doghouse room. I actually slept in it for a couple weeks as we were going through trouble as I never knew she was in the middle of an affair. Doesn't that suck?! I'm the one that was losing sleep tossing and turning in the guest room while she was sleeping with her co-worker. I was under the impression she was just trying to "find herself". Oh well.
Thanks, Everyone.
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malone
Platinum
Reged: 12/30/07
Posts: 1682
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[quote] I don't expect to ask her parents to testify for me.
I'm not acting like the vengeful angry person. I have communicated a lot with her parents, and they both know what I am putting up with.
My wife has probably gone out/done overnights with friends 10 times in a year.
I've been the one to NEVER go out, let alone overnight. My wife travels, on average, every several months for a week.
IF she wants something additional to those rules I can be the one to allow it or not. [/quote]
Doug, have a read of the things you are saying. I think you need to step back from the heat and angst of your situation. I also think you urgently need to go to a counsellor.
To the points you have just made, no, don't expect her parents to testify for you. That would be very, very wrong.
With regard "what you are putting up with", I assume Doug, that your wife is a primary provider if you are able to be at home a lot. Not sure, this hasn't been made clear.
If she is, and she's in the kind of industry or role that requires it, she will naturally be away from home more than you. Many men are in jobs where they are also away more. In fact, a lot more than your wife is. Usually no one says anythng because it's frequently not questioned when men have those work demands. I'm saying that you can't expect her to be a SAHM and a provider. There aren't enough hours in the day to do both well.
10 overnights in 365 days? That's nothing. A week away from home while on business, once every 3 or 4 months? That's nothing too.
I have friends, men and women who are in jobs that take them away for half the week, EVERY WEEK. That's half the year. They've chosen to work together on that work commitment and the partner who is at home more is very supportive.
If you've never gone out, never had an overnight or two, then maybe you should have. Why have you NEVER gone out? I cannot understand that. That's unusual. If it's becuase your wife was away then you only needed to get a sitter to go out for an evening. But in the end, NEVER going out is your choice. There are no medals.
The language you use about wanting to "be the one who allows your wife" access, well, that's not a great start either.
I'm not usually this tough with a newbie. But while your wife is not perfect, I think you need counselling because there are a lot of things you say that need working through too.
Are you seeing a counsellor, ON YOUR OWN? i.e. A relationship pysychologist. You really should as it will help you get the bigger picture. Also, FYI. My marriage lawyer said to me about my divorce arrangements, this is not about blame, it's about the solution. I would say the same to you. Get out of blame mode and think about what needs to happen next. From this point on, it's about doing the right thing for your child so that he grows up with his mom and his dad. It's not about who's in the wrong. That part is done.
All the comments about "what you're putting up with" indicate that the atmosphere in your home won't be great. And the cause will be BOTH of you, not just your wife.
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malone
Platinum
Reged: 12/30/07
Posts: 1682
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By the way, how old are you and your wife?
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allthumbs
Platinum
Reged: 07/12/07
Posts: 245
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If you were in CA, before primary custody (primary residency) was given to either parent, both would be required to go to classes and a meeting with a licensed court social worker to address the parenting plan. Then the social worker would make a recommendation to the court, based on how the meeting went, which the court most often follows. Courts frown on parents who attempt to deny access to the children, unless one of the parents can be proven to be unfit. You may ( or may not ) be the better primary caregiver. If you can show that it is you who takes care of your child most often, that will go a long ways in court because the courts like to maintain the status quo unless it is harmful. If you are now the primary caregiver and can prove it, you will probably remain that way unless you get before prejudiced judges or social workers. If you attempt to deny access to your child by the mother, that will hurt you badly. Courts do not like that at all. You basically need to show you now, and have been, the primary caregiver. And have the abilities and desire to remain so. Your wife may not even protest if she needs to travel often and likes to go out a lot. It will cost her in CS. But those financial issues should not be the main concern in determining who should have primary residency. Who would care for the child best? That is what the court is most concerned about. That and the parenting plan.
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still waiting
New
Reged: 04/30/08
Posts: 4
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So sorry for what you are going through. I know from experience that you need to document/record EVERYTHING. Dates, times, conversations, because when you begin making accusations you will need to back them up with proof. I have spent $14,000.00 in a year trying to fight a man who knows how to manipulate the system. Good luck and I will be praying for you!!
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golightly
Gold
Reged: 04/10/07
Posts: 137
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A couple of things to add:
MAke sure your custody agreement includes a stipulation that she can't move away (ie out of the town, county, etc..) and also the right of first refusal if she is scheduled ot have the kid but can't take care of him. This means that she can't dump the kid at her parents' for the weekend if something better comes up - she has to ask you first.
Another thing to keep in mind - although the parenting schedule will sound as if it is set in stone, and will always be enforceable during period where you and your ex can't seem to get on the same page, the reality is that you can make it a lot more flexible if you just keep the kid's best interest in mind. For instance, my husband had joint legal custody of his 2 kids, but his ex-wife got primary physical custody. As per the agreement, he had every other weekend, a few holidays, and the summer was stipulated as being "negotiable." On paper - very scary - sounds as if he would hardly ever get to have his kids. The reality was that he had them every summer, all summer. He also had them for weeks on end during the school year whenever his ex-wife just "couldn't handle it" - which was frequent. Sounds like your ex might be similar. Make sure you get a lawyer ot get you the most time on paper, but keep in mind that her character means you'll probably get your kid a lot more! good luck.
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