stoltz
Platinum
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 1478
Loc: Texas
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Personally, I think the generation influence plays only a minor role in it. Yes, newer generations are more open/liberal as evidenced by a lot of things in our society (for example, amount of allowable cursing, and tolerance thereof, on public TV).
But there are also some side issues raised with being more open - IOW, what one may define as appropriate "openess" WRT sex, another may find offensive regardless of age/generation. Then it morphs into a moral issue.
I have two older kids, who, unfortunately, grew up the majority of time away from me, so I never had a chance really to engage in this type of discussion with them. I have some younger kids now, and when the opportunity arises we'll both talk to them about it.
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mistake#2
Platinum
Reged: 07/19/06
Posts: 3136
Loc: Florida
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[quote]Not that this has much to do with mens' rights or even divorce, but I would like to ask you a few questions, as if I were one of your kids, and to see what your answers would be to them:
1. Mommy, why do men have to pay for everything when a man and a woman "date"?
2. Mommy, I heard Uncle Joe telling someone that his wife divorced him for his money and now he has to live in a shelter, and his wife stays in the house he bought and he has to pay her almost everything he makes. He said that he only gets to see Jimmy and Janette once a week, for two hours. Is this true? Did he do something wrong?
3. Mommy, what is "prostitution"? Why is someone on TV always saying that someone is going to jail for it?
4. Mommy, what is an "abortion"? I saw someone on TV holding a sign that said it is murder. If this is true, why don't they arrest someone who does this, instead of the "prostitutes"?
Your absence of any reply will be understandable, as would be your absence of any reply if you were, indeed, asked these questions by your child. How can a person rationally answer any question, when the answer would expose themselves as being a self-serving, exploitative hypocrite?! [/quote]
JBAR, your stupid...but actually some of those questions have come up with my kids and depending upon their age determines how I answer the question as I don't give more information than what they can either handle or are looking for.
1. Has never come up, as I teach my children equality...the person who asks for the date pays and either can ask. Personally for teenagers, I think when they start going out on a regular basis things should be split or traded off. For example,if my daughter has a steady boyfriend, then sometimes she pays & sometime he pays or they go dutch...or they find something to do that doesn't cost money cause their isn't anything wrong with that.
2. That's just a bunch of crap and doesn't deserve a reply.
3. Prostitution is illegal. Whether we agree that it should be or not doesn't matter, if someone breaks the law then they go to jail.
4. Abortion is legal. Whether we agree that it should be or not doesn't matter. They didn't break any law.
Your the self-serving hypocrite JBAR!
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**2 1/2 weeks to go...should start counting down the days**
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jbar
Platinum
Reged: 12/16/06
Posts: 987
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"Not that this has much to do with mens' rights or even divorce, but I would like to ask you a few questions, as if I were one of your kids, and to see what your answers would be to them:
1. Mommy, why do men have to pay for everything when a man and a woman "date"?"
1. Has never come up, as I teach my children equality...the person who asks for the date pays and either can ask. Personally for teenagers, I think when they start going out on a regular basis things should be split or traded off. For example,if my daughter has a steady boyfriend, then sometimes she pays & sometime he pays or they go dutch...or they find something to do that doesn't cost money cause their isn't anything wrong with that.
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LOL! You know very well that if you told your daughter this, and she then asked a boy for a date, and paid for it, she would be laughed at and ridiculed by her peers--both male and female. She would then hate you for the rest of her life. This is the kind of sexist, anti-male mentality which I am complaining about. You may not possess it yourself, but it is part and parcel of our culture.
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"2. Mommy, I heard Uncle Joe telling someone that his wife divorced him for his money and now he has to live in a shelter, and his wife stays in the house he bought and he has to pay her almost everything he makes. He said that he only gets to see Jimmy and Janette once a week, for two hours. Is this true? Did he do something wrong?"
2. That's just a bunch of crap and doesn't deserve a reply.
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Is that what you would tell your child if he asked you such a question (using the appropriate, actual names of parties)? Would you justify such an answer by telling yourself that "this is all the information he needs or can understand"? Children have an innate, inborn sense of justice. After giving such a reply, would you be surprised if the child then suspected that you can no longer be trusted, are part of some odd, hidden conspiracy, and that Uncle Joe is one of the victims of it? In the event that he were to do so, these natural suspicions of the child would be one-hundred percent correct and justified!
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"3. Mommy, what is "prostitution"? Why is someone on TV always saying that someone is going to jail for it?"
3. Prostitution is illegal. Whether we agree that it should be or not doesn't matter, if someone breaks the law then they go to jail.
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Is this supposed to be an answer to the child's question? He really wants to know what it is that people are going to jail for all the time. If your child is old enough, and intelligent enough, to ask such a question then he will not accept such a dismissive reply, and will know that are trying to BS him.
If everyone believed, as you apparently do, that an arbitrary law is its own justification, then shouldn't blacks still be segregated? Shouldn't we still be subjects of The Queen? Shouldn't women still be the "property" of men? If they were still so, then shouldn't you presently believe that any woman should go to jail for behaving in violation of his orders, or that he should have the right to punish her for doing so?
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"4. Mommy, what is an "abortion"? I saw someone on TV holding a sign that said it is murder. If this is true, why don't they arrest someone who does this, instead of the "prostitutes"?"
4. Abortion is legal. Whether we agree that it should be or not doesn't matter. They didn't break any law.
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As explained in my last response, an arbitrary law cannot be its own justification. The collective conscience of the people, in a democracy, must continually weigh the justice of all law and these same people must, then, do anything they legally can to oppose unjust law. The corrolary is also true; license to behave in an unjust way must be opposed by the people with appropriate law. The fact that a given, voluntary act MAY be performed at the expense of a victim should be enough to justify law prohibiting it, particularly when the act may be murder, even if such victimization cannot be proven. Pregnancy is a normal, not a pathological process, and interference with it may produce such a murder victim. No one knows.
Mistake, you now stand naked, in the eyes of the entire world, exposed as a typical self-aggrandizing woman who specializes in selling lies, half truths and three-quarter truths. You are clearly seen as doing so while twisting and spinning--or totally ignoring--every question or issue of justice, with respect to relationships between men and women, to your own favor and for the benefit of your feminazi peers.
I may or may not be "stupid", but I'm smart enough to see THIS!
Edited by jbar (05/16/08 01:10 AM)
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mistake#2
Platinum
Reged: 07/19/06
Posts: 3136
Loc: Florida
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[quote]===========================================================
1. Has never come up, as I teach my children equality...the person who asks for the date pays and either can ask.
**You replied**LOL! You know very well that if you told your daughter this, and she then asked a boy for a date, and paid for it, she would be laughed at and ridiculed by her peers--both male and female. She would then hate you for the rest of her life. This is the kind of sexist, anti-male mentality which I am complaining about. You may not possess it yourself, but it is part and parcel of our culture.
++++ No, my daughter is not laughed at by her peers and a lot of kids nowadays have the same mentality when it comes to dating and finances. This isn't a hypothetical answer as my children do this and as a matter of fact, when I was a teenager I also did this.
HOW OLD ARE YOU AGAIN?
It's not sexist for a woman to pay...but it IS sexist to assume that a man SHOULD pay.
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2. That's just a bunch of crap and doesn't deserve a reply.
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**You replied**
Is that what you would tell your child if he asked you this question (fill in appropriate actual names of parties)?
++++how about we change that to the questions that I have been asked..."mommy how come daddy has a brand new television and just got this huge tax refund but you haven't gotten new clothing in years, we can't go to McDonalds and he won't help so I can play soccer?" "How come you can't bring us to Chuck E Cheese like daddy does?" "How come daddy uses all his cell phone minutes to call his new girlfriend, but hasn't called us in 3 weeks?" "How come daddy lives in a 4 bedroom house by himself, but the 3 of us live in a 2 bedroom apt?" "How come you have to work 2 jobs but daddy doesn't?" "Why does daddy cuss and scream in my face?" "Why did daddy ask me if I was a virgin and threaten to bring me to the doctor to have my hymen examined when he didn't believe me?" "Why did daddy grab me by the throat and hold me up against the wall?" "Why did daddy smack me in the head when he knew I was recovering from sinus surgery?" "Why did daddy lie to the cops and say I was being unruly instead of telling them that he dragged me through the house after scraping my back along the bed rail because I couldn't get my shoes on fast enough?" Those JBAR are the true questions I have gotten. What you are suggesting hasn't remotely happened to any MAN that I know of...that's why is so much crap++
**You said**
Would you justify such an answer by telling yourself that "this is all the information he needs or can understand"? Children have an innate, inborn sense of justice. After giving such a reply, would you be surprised if the child then believed that you can no longer be trusted, are part of some odd, hidden conspiracy, and that Uncle Joe is one of the victims of it? In this case, the child's natural assumptions and instincts would be one-hundred percent correct!
++I don't lie to my kids. period. If I ever got a question as ridiculous as this, then I would see whose been feeding the kids so much crap and confront them on it. If it was remotely true then I would address that with the kids. Seriously JBAR, how many men do you personally know of that live in a shelter after their wives divorced them for no reason and took EVERYTHING? I would bet zero, zilch, none...and if you try to put yourself in those shoes we'll call your bluff and tell you to get off your a$$ (along with disability) and quit sponging off your grown kids.
"3. Mommy, what is "prostitution"? Why is someone on TV always saying that someone is going to jail for it?"
3. Prostitution is illegal. Whether we agree that it should be or not doesn't matter, if someone breaks the law then they go to jail.
**You then stated**
Is this supposed to be an answer to the child's question? He really wants to know what it is that people are going to jail for all the time. If your child is old enough, and intelligent enough, to ask such a question then he will not accept such a dismissive reply, and know that are trying to BS him.
++Yes, age appropriate and I assumed since you asked that you were old enough to know what prostitution was so I didn't need to repeat it...my older kids and I have had discussions about it, they know what it is and they know my views. That being said, my personal views about prostitution really doesn't matter past a certain age they need to make the decision for themselves about how they feel about it.
**you stated**
If everyone believed, as you apparently do, that an arbitrary law is its own justification, then shouldn't blacks still be segregated? Shouldn't we still be subjects of The Queen? Shouldn't women still be the "property" of men? If they were still so, then shouldn't you presently believe that any woman should go to jail for behaving in violation of his orders, or that he should have the right to punish her for doing so?
++NO, again your just being argumentative...
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"4. Mommy, what is an "abortion"? I saw someone on TV holding a sign that said it is murder. If this is true, why don't they arrest someone who does this, instead of the "prostitutes"?"
4. Abortion is legal. Whether we agree that it should be or not doesn't matter. They didn't break any law.
===========================================================
See my last response.
++This too my kids and I have discussed...they all know what it is (including my 8 year old), don't you kow what it is? and the kids know my personal opinion. This too at some point they will decide whether they agree to or disagree to, the fact remains is that it is legal.
**You stated**
Mistake, you now stand naked, in the eyes of the entire world, exposed as a typical self-aggrandizing woman who specializes in selling lies, half truths and three-quarters truths. You are clearly seen as doing so while twisting and spinning--or totally ignoring--every question or issue of justice, with respect to relationships between men and women, to your own favor and for the benefit of your feminazi peers.
I may or may not be "stupid", but I'm smart enough to see THIS! [/quote]
++Open your eyes JBAR...I am none of those things that you stated. What your doing is objectifying every woman that comes on here as fitting into a certain mold that you have decided fits all.
And how is any of this supposed to be "in my favor"?
Give me a break, I say that I'm open and honest with my kids and you try to test me? Then you spew out nonsense and call me a liar?
Here's the difference between you and I...I understand that I have some unique ideas and that not everybody agrees with all of them which is just fine with me. I also don't feel the need to try and "brainwash" anyone, including my children, into believing exactly what I believe. Sure kids learn what you teach them, but I teach my kids to think for themselves and question things that they don't agree with. Religiously, my older kids and I don't even practice the same exact beliefs and have amazing conversations about it. I teach them to RESPECT others beliefs, not to just agree without any questions nor disagree argumentatively but to respect their rights to have different opinions than someone elses. I will openly talk about what I'm prejudice against...and its probably a lot different than most.
You are biased...you don't teach, you spew.
I hope people on here see you for what you are.
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**2 1/2 weeks to go...should start counting down the days**
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mistake#2
Platinum
Reged: 07/19/06
Posts: 3136
Loc: Florida
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[quote)++++how about we change that to the questions that I have been asked..."mommy how come daddy has a brand new television and just got this huge tax refund but you haven't gotten new clothing in years, we can't go to McDonalds and he won't help so I can play soccer?" "How come you can't bring us to Chuck E Cheese like daddy does?" "How come daddy uses all his cell phone minutes to call his new girlfriend, but hasn't called us in 3 weeks?" "How come daddy lives in a 4 bedroom house by himself, but the 3 of us live in a 2 bedroom apt?" "How come you have to work 2 jobs but daddy doesn't?" "Why does daddy cuss and scream in my face?" "Why did daddy ask me if I was a virgin and threaten to bring me to the doctor to have my hymen examined when he didn't believe me?" "Why did daddy grab me by the throat and hold me up against the wall?" "Why did daddy smack me in the head when he knew I was recovering from sinus surgery?" "Why did daddy lie to the cops and say I was being unruly instead of telling them that he dragged me through the house after scraping my back along the bed rail because I couldn't get my shoes on fast enough?" Those JBAR are the true questions I have gotten. What you are suggesting hasn't remotely happened to any MAN that I know of...that's why is so much crap++
[/quote]
Now pretend your a mother who has to deal with those questions...and a lot more, I'd really like to know what are you going to respond to those kids?
Try explaining to THEM why their dad who professes love for them treats them this way & why no one can seem to do anything about it.
You can spew as much hateful nonsense my way as you want JBAR, you really have NO friggin' clue what a lot of people go through...men, women and kids alike.
I don't have the luxury of trying to give my kids some fairytale life that you appear to think that women steal...I deal with REAL issues, REAL problems and not contrived scenarios.
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**2 1/2 weeks to go...should start counting down the days**
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ATVILLAS
Platinum
Reged: 05/12/07
Posts: 2284
Loc: Lost in the post D maze!!
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Why do people even respond to Jbar??????????????????
And when you do why do you have to copy his methods??========================================================================================================================
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Help someone smile today!!!
Welcome to paradise!!!
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allthumbs
Platinum
Reged: 07/12/07
Posts: 366
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I just ignore his rants. And:
"if someone breaks the law then they go to jail."
If this were only true. sigh.
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malone
Platinum
Reged: 12/30/07
Posts: 1865
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[quote]Why do people even respond to Jbar??????????????????
[/quote]
Out of morbid fascination with the dark unhappiness of one person.
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jbar
Platinum
Reged: 12/16/06
Posts: 987
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===========================================================
Why do people even respond to Jbar??????????????????
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Because, like a thief caught red-handed, they know they are guilty but must follow their natural impulse to insistently deny it and attempt to "explain" their behaviour!
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mistake#2
Platinum
Reged: 07/19/06
Posts: 3136
Loc: Florida
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Who is the self-serving hypocrite JBAR?
Who is standing exposed for who and what they really are... YOU ...can't respond to legitimate questions instead of contrived ones?
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