Divorce Support Forums: tax refund..he took it all

Married, informally separated and not doing ANYTHING to finalize or formalize things on paper, the support will be whatever the two of you choose for it to be. Married people can decide to support each other, to be roommates, to live separately... whatever they want, and no one is going to interfere or tell them what they deserve.

I think what you're asking is what you would be entitled to if you divorced him. I have to tell you that after 32 years, with an income difference as huge as yours is, you probably are entitled to a whole lot more than he's giving you, but the longer you allow this separated without an agreement thing to continue, the less you'll deserve as an ongoing thing.

Here is why. Most states allow alimony (often called spousal maintenance) to be calculated according to how much the receiving spouse needs (in a lower income couple, they will also consider whether the giving spouse also has minimal needs)... and if you're allowing a siutation where you live in a smaller place, and are willing to take whatever bones he throws you, the leftovers off his table of plenty, then you are showing that your needs are much less than they might have been considered to be if you'd gone ahead and filed for divorce.

You NEED to consult an attorney to find out what's up in your state regarding this. If you've got a religious fear of dealing with divorce (I understand this, I'm Catholic and divorced), find a way to get over it for the purposes of taking care of the finances. The Catholic system makes it quite possible to get over it, because the civil divorce doesnt' even count in God's eyes by our faith... so we can do the civil divorce and get the finances and property and child care issues all resolved properly according to the state, and leave the divorce in the eyes of God get saved for later (in the annulment, which I did eventually do). I know of no faith which would not allow you to protect your financial interests from a man who was living separately from you and no longer supporting you. And in our system, that requires simply filing the civil divorce or formal separation paperwork.

You need to consult an attorney here, because your rights are frittering away as we speak. Every month that you scrimp & save to live off of $20K a month is another month that he will be able to prove you don't NEED any more. This is NOT good for you. You are entitled probably to half the accumulated assets, not just the SMALL half... not just the cabin in the woods while he lives in the mansion in town, you know? you do not need to take his castoffs or leftovers after 32 years of organizing his life and keeping hte homefires burning. But you need a lawyer to get it for you, because taking his leftovers, whatever he's willing to toss your way, is not a good retirement plan for you!

You'll probably find that you're entitled to half his retirement, but if you allow him to sign off on a retirement payout option that is not in your best interests, just so you can keep the peace, you'll be messing with your rights on this without the assistance of a lawyer.

I know lots of people don't go to lawyers because they think that doing so will start a war. BUT... in the meantime, you're having to live off next to nothing while he punishes you for taking half the tax refund and starting an account for your grandchild with it.

To answer your question... when you are informally separated and he thinks this money should have been his, then it should have been his and there's nothing you can do to change his mind about that. The reason he thinks that is that he earns the lion's share of the income in the first place so if there's a refund then he feels he should get the lion's share of the refund. He's a fool to have such a problem with his withholding tha the GETS such a big refund... and he's right to fiddle with his withholding so that this doesn't happen in the future, but when you do not have an agreement between you for support, nothing signed, sealed & delivered by a court of law, if he THINKS it's his, then it IS. There will be no amount of trying to persuade him to cchange his mind that will officially change what you get, because there IS nothign official in your sitaution.

If you had legal advice, you'd know you're entitled to a whole lot more than he is giving you, and so you might be in a position to say to him, "look, if you dn't GIVE me half, I'll just file for divorce and get a judge to FORCE you to give it to me"... but truthfully, this is not a good strategy for any successful negotiation. That kind of threat just makes people do LESS than they were inclined to do in the first place. THe way to do it is to actually FILE... actually GET a judge to order him to do the right thing by you, and THEN if you think maybe you should not take so much, voluntarily negotiate with him to let him have more. But what's going on now... he has you ... you're not filing, you're being "kept" as if you were a mistress... and you're afraid to make a move for fear of losing a bit of his good will. As long as he keeps you in teh dark about what you deserve, it's a good thing for him. So he will probably say stuff about divorce, trying to intimidate you into not looking up your rights on it. He will probably make threats to cut you off entirely if you dare to file. It's intended to keep you from finding out that you deserve more.

My husband's ex convinced him that he'd never see the kids again, that he'd owe his entire paycheck to her if they ever divorced. This was unreasonable, so he stayed with her longer than reasonable. When it finally became unbearable, he sought legal advice and found out that she was very wrong. He'd already set himself up for some wrong things by that time... allowing her to keep the kids when they separated and allowing her to organize 100% of thier time during that separation... so now they're so booked that they rarely have time to see him (unless they're exhausted).

You NEED to see a lawyer so you don't get yourself in a position that is unbearable but that you can't get out of!

BUT, So... I would ask you in the interest of negotiating this with him ... have you TOLD him that you thought it was a 50-50 thing and you only took the 50% you thought was yours to start an account with the baby's name on it? HAve you SHOWN this account to him? Have you offered to put his name on as the adult custodian of the account if he'll resume paying your expenses? Have you apologized for the error?

THESE are your only realistic options if you are trying to do this without official court action. Really... anything more and he'd say to himself, "well, if she's going to want me to pay what I'd owe her if she took it to court, I might as well make her take me to court"... and he'll just hold onto his money and wait.

In the meantime, if you do not file, you are walking on eggshells... needing to tiptoe around in the hopes that he'll do the right thing and pay for your rent every once in a while. At any moment, he can decide he doesn't like you or is angry over some sutpid thing (as you ahve found out) and will totally withhold your support until he's in the mood to start it again. You are totally dependent upon his charitable impulse and he will THINK of it as charity. He will not THINK of it as something you're entitled to for having supported him and been the woman behind the man for all those years. It's not a good way to live, to have to hope he keeps a good feeling about you.

What happens when he's 70 years old and goes a little nutty and thinks you're stealing from him? And decides to sell your house out from under you in retaliation... or not pay the rent, or not pay the utilities... What happens when he gets a 25 year old girlfriend who is all eager to share in his good fortune to have a great job and tells him to ditch the payments to his ex since they're not court ordered... and in order to keep the cute little piece of tail around he needs to take what he's been using to pay your expenses and use it to buy her breast implants? What happens when he simply gets sick of seeing your expenses coming out of his paycheck like they were taxes and social security... making his net take home really tiny in comparison to the work he does?

As it is, you have no control over your income, assets, future. You have ONLY to hold your breath and hope he does not take a notion to be a jerk this month... this is NOT a goo dway to live.

Go talk to a lawyer. You might find it will be a whole lot better for you if you file for official separation or divorce and get a court order for your support on the books!