delph1o
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Reged: 05/27/08
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My husband and I are informally separated but married 32 years. I live in one of our houses. He makes about 200,000/year. I make about 20,000. He deposits money to pay household finances, and some support to me. We filed married/jointly. Surprisingly the refund deposited into our joint account was 20,000 . I took half thinking that's how it works in community property and opened an account to invest for our new grandbaby. I just never thought we had to discuss how to divide the refund.He stopped depositing then sent me a note that he'll just apply the 20,000 to the monthly amount he would have deposited and would resume in four months. Said he'll have to fix it so there isn't such a big refund. This means that the money I thought was mine is now attributed to the monthly support.
He makes the majority of income, but we filed jointly.
I assume I have no basis for half of the refund because we have no formal agreement. Absent that, are there legal guidelines we could use? Or am I screwed...he does have me over a barrel since he can just not deposit anything.
Is there any family code that would help sort this out?
Should I let it go? Call it a wash? Is he right? I'd like to see what others would think of this. I have no perspective and probably no power to change anything.
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allthumbs
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Reged: 07/12/07
Posts: 560
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It appears that the tax refund came from HIS withholding taxes throughout the year, since you make very little. If you were separated when he earned this income from which the extra withholding tax was taken, then it is not your tax refund but his, and therefore, he is entitled to all of it.
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Samsung
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Reged: 06/14/07
Posts: 2210
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If I understand you correctly, he is already depositing $5000 tax free in your account each month. Please clarify if that is true or not. That's equal to about a $85K taxable income, plus the $20K you earn. Using an online calculator, his net pay on $200K after taxes, is $10,200 month, and that's if he's putting zero into retirement. In other words, he's already giving nearly half his income, which is more than likely significantly more than a court will award. And, whatever the award may look like in the future, it will be tax deductable to him, and you will have to pay taxes on it.
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gigi
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Married, informally separated and not doing ANYTHING to finalize or formalize things on paper, the support will be whatever the two of you choose for it to be. Married people can decide to support each other, to be roommates, to live separately... whatever they want, and no one is going to interfere or tell them what they deserve.
I think what you're asking is what you would be entitled to if you divorced him. I have to tell you that after 32 years, with an income difference as huge as yours is, you probably are entitled to a whole lot more than he's giving you, but the longer you allow this separated without an agreement thing to continue, the less you'll deserve as an ongoing thing.
Here is why. Most states allow alimony (often called spousal maintenance) to be calculated according to how much the receiving spouse needs (in a lower income couple, they will also consider whether the giving spouse also has minimal needs)... and if you're allowing a siutation where you live in a smaller place, and are willing to take whatever bones he throws you, the leftovers off his table of plenty, then you are showing that your needs are much less than they might have been considered to be if you'd gone ahead and filed for divorce.
You NEED to consult an attorney to find out what's up in your state regarding this. If you've got a religious fear of dealing with divorce (I understand this, I'm Catholic and divorced), find a way to get over it for the purposes of taking care of the finances. The Catholic system makes it quite possible to get over it, because the civil divorce doesnt' even count in God's eyes by our faith... so we can do the civil divorce and get the finances and property and child care issues all resolved properly according to the state, and leave the divorce in the eyes of God get saved for later (in the annulment, which I did eventually do). I know of no faith which would not allow you to protect your financial interests from a man who was living separately from you and no longer supporting you. And in our system, that requires simply filing the civil divorce or formal separation paperwork.
You need to consult an attorney here, because your rights are frittering away as we speak. Every month that you scrimp & save to live off of $20K a month is another month that he will be able to prove you don't NEED any more. This is NOT good for you. You are entitled probably to half the accumulated assets, not just the SMALL half... not just the cabin in the woods while he lives in the mansion in town, you know? you do not need to take his castoffs or leftovers after 32 years of organizing his life and keeping hte homefires burning. But you need a lawyer to get it for you, because taking his leftovers, whatever he's willing to toss your way, is not a good retirement plan for you!
You'll probably find that you're entitled to half his retirement, but if you allow him to sign off on a retirement payout option that is not in your best interests, just so you can keep the peace, you'll be messing with your rights on this without the assistance of a lawyer.
I know lots of people don't go to lawyers because they think that doing so will start a war. BUT... in the meantime, you're having to live off next to nothing while he punishes you for taking half the tax refund and starting an account for your grandchild with it.
To answer your question... when you are informally separated and he thinks this money should have been his, then it should have been his and there's nothing you can do to change his mind about that. The reason he thinks that is that he earns the lion's share of the income in the first place so if there's a refund then he feels he should get the lion's share of the refund. He's a fool to have such a problem with his withholding tha the GETS such a big refund... and he's right to fiddle with his withholding so that this doesn't happen in the future, but when you do not have an agreement between you for support, nothing signed, sealed & delivered by a court of law, if he THINKS it's his, then it IS. There will be no amount of trying to persuade him to cchange his mind that will officially change what you get, because there IS nothign official in your sitaution.
If you had legal advice, you'd know you're entitled to a whole lot more than he is giving you, and so you might be in a position to say to him, "look, if you dn't GIVE me half, I'll just file for divorce and get a judge to FORCE you to give it to me"... but truthfully, this is not a good strategy for any successful negotiation. That kind of threat just makes people do LESS than they were inclined to do in the first place. THe way to do it is to actually FILE... actually GET a judge to order him to do the right thing by you, and THEN if you think maybe you should not take so much, voluntarily negotiate with him to let him have more. But what's going on now... he has you ... you're not filing, you're being "kept" as if you were a mistress... and you're afraid to make a move for fear of losing a bit of his good will. As long as he keeps you in teh dark about what you deserve, it's a good thing for him. So he will probably say stuff about divorce, trying to intimidate you into not looking up your rights on it. He will probably make threats to cut you off entirely if you dare to file. It's intended to keep you from finding out that you deserve more.
My husband's ex convinced him that he'd never see the kids again, that he'd owe his entire paycheck to her if they ever divorced. This was unreasonable, so he stayed with her longer than reasonable. When it finally became unbearable, he sought legal advice and found out that she was very wrong. He'd already set himself up for some wrong things by that time... allowing her to keep the kids when they separated and allowing her to organize 100% of thier time during that separation... so now they're so booked that they rarely have time to see him (unless they're exhausted).
You NEED to see a lawyer so you don't get yourself in a position that is unbearable but that you can't get out of!
BUT, So... I would ask you in the interest of negotiating this with him ... have you TOLD him that you thought it was a 50-50 thing and you only took the 50% you thought was yours to start an account with the baby's name on it? HAve you SHOWN this account to him? Have you offered to put his name on as the adult custodian of the account if he'll resume paying your expenses? Have you apologized for the error?
THESE are your only realistic options if you are trying to do this without official court action. Really... anything more and he'd say to himself, "well, if she's going to want me to pay what I'd owe her if she took it to court, I might as well make her take me to court"... and he'll just hold onto his money and wait.
In the meantime, if you do not file, you are walking on eggshells... needing to tiptoe around in the hopes that he'll do the right thing and pay for your rent every once in a while. At any moment, he can decide he doesn't like you or is angry over some sutpid thing (as you ahve found out) and will totally withhold your support until he's in the mood to start it again. You are totally dependent upon his charitable impulse and he will THINK of it as charity. He will not THINK of it as something you're entitled to for having supported him and been the woman behind the man for all those years. It's not a good way to live, to have to hope he keeps a good feeling about you.
What happens when he's 70 years old and goes a little nutty and thinks you're stealing from him? And decides to sell your house out from under you in retaliation... or not pay the rent, or not pay the utilities... What happens when he gets a 25 year old girlfriend who is all eager to share in his good fortune to have a great job and tells him to ditch the payments to his ex since they're not court ordered... and in order to keep the cute little piece of tail around he needs to take what he's been using to pay your expenses and use it to buy her breast implants? What happens when he simply gets sick of seeing your expenses coming out of his paycheck like they were taxes and social security... making his net take home really tiny in comparison to the work he does?
As it is, you have no control over your income, assets, future. You have ONLY to hold your breath and hope he does not take a notion to be a jerk this month... this is NOT a goo dway to live.
Go talk to a lawyer. You might find it will be a whole lot better for you if you file for official separation or divorce and get a court order for your support on the books!
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delph1o
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Reged: 05/27/08
Posts: 14
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That's interesting. I have trouble seeing the forest for the trees so to speak. Would you please take the time to look at this pattern and tell me what you think?
Three years ago we filed jointly and I paid my portion of the taxes from an inheritance. He was informed by the tax preparer that with his consultation work he should pay estimated taxes. I did on my income. That year he did not pay estimated taxes and claimed five dependants even though it was just me. As a result he owed 12,000. He wanted me to pay half and that's when things broke down. He put it on a credit card, charged some more for house repair and had me pay on it out of our joint account. I handle our finances because he kept skipping payments and incurring finance charges. Even drove without car insurance. He then increased his withholding and stopped direct depositing, depositing a set amount monthly. Last year his return was about 9000. He had me apply the return to his credit card which I did. He still owes 2500. He pays 200/month on it in spite of the fact that his take home as a doctor is 10,000 a month.
I wanted to pay my taxes and he pay his taxes but he told me not to, that withholding from his income was easier. He told me not to pay estimated taxes anymore. I didn't, we filed a joint return and he took it all.
So what do you think since he told me not to pay taxes and we file jointly.
I just think there's something else going on and unfortunately I want things to be fair and honest.We haven't filed for divorce or separation because we just thought it wouldn't be worth it but we don't have an agreement either. I know he wants total control and from an emotional standpoint it makes me feel like it impunes my integrity. I tend to have a strong sense of fairness and in times of uncertainty like in this situation I look for some kind of family code to give me some direction. From what I've read, a joint refund is 50/50 and if one person takes more they have to be accountable for it in that it has to go to marital expenses. That indeed may be where he has me since he's applying it to marital finances. It seems he should apply his half to the monthly deposit.
Anyway, what's your take on this? I guess I feel like I've been tricked, but I don't know.
Sorry this was long.I'm almost embarrased about this but it is what it is.
Thanks for your input.
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delph1o
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Reged: 05/27/08
Posts: 14
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Samsung:
He deposits 4500/mo to cover our mortgage,insurances,property taxes. He thinks I should get 1500 of that, the rest is, I guess his.So I guess if he were to claim that, my taxes would be on 38,000.He has a CalPers defined benefit retirement he pays into.
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Samsung
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Reged: 06/14/07
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So, he's actually sending you $54,000 tax free a year right now, in addition to your $20K income. I just to be clear on this.
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delph1o
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Gigi: Thank you for your very thoughtful response I've seen a lawyer each spring since this started. The first time I totally fell apart in her office. I'm sure it's clear to you who talk to people like me on these board that I'm one of the walking wounded. I saw a therapist and she said I was one of the worst cases of PTSD she had seen. As a result, I missed some important life skills and have such severe emotional/physical response to these things that I finally say to myself, I won't win, I'll be worse off so I won't so anything.
Funny thing is, he's a psychiatrist.He's retiring in 2 years. I don't know if it's worth it. I asked him if he wanted a divorce and he said no. We agreed I would recieve half his retirement. That's a done deal. And as far as I know the spouse has to sign off on it.
When I look at the numbers, it's a wash. After I pay attorney fees(I'm afraid of that getting out of control) and risking losing my house(how did you know I live in the woods), I think it's easier to just sit tight. But again, I know I'm missing what others might see clearly.
I don't know how to go about getting an agreement without it becoming so adversarial. If I approach it from an informal standpoint it might work. Timing is important. He's a very paranoid person and needs to think it's his idea.
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delph1o
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Samsung:
As far as I know he clears about 170,000. He deposits 54,000 of which 27,000 goes to pay our mortgage and other bills. He thinks of that I should recieve 18,000 because that would be sufficient for me with my 20,000. When I saw a lawyer she said, sure you can buy clothes at the thrift store but you shouldn't have to. I do have the capacity to live simply because I never live beyond my means. I have no personal debt.
He told me not to pay my estimated taxes.
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Samsung
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"He deposits 54,000 of which 27,000 goes to pay our mortgage and other bills. He thinks of that I should recieve 18,000 because that would be sufficient for me with my 20,000."
I don't know how alimony would play out in your area, as it varies greatly from state to state, county to county, judge to judge, and even day to day. However, since you have 2 homes, and you are apparently excluslively living in one, the entire $54,000 is going to be considered alimony. Also, if he clears $170K a year, he would have to make more than $200K. Often alimony will ordered for a lifetime in a long term marriage, but since his retirement is not far off, and you are already getting half, his income is going to drop tremendously a couple years from now, and it will be reflected in the amount of alimony. Does you attorney given you a ball park figure?
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gigi
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Reged: 11/06/06
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OK, he retires in 2 years after which you'll be entitled to half his retirement... but has he agreed to do halve of EVERY retirement account? Because he's certainly not doing half his INCOME at THIS point! You probably should count up all the assets and figure out what the stuff you're getting amounts to.
Yes, you'll have to sign off on the distribution plan for any pension he's involved in, and I think also any 401K... but I'm not sure if an IRA goes that way.
Of COURSE you live in the little cabin in the woods... lots of people get those as vacation homes and theyr'e CHEAP in comparison to the larger home near work & such... so of COURSE you're in the woods because he wants the bigger place... but here's the thing, you're entitled to HALF the house in the woods but you're ALSO entitled to half the equity on the house in the city! That is, if you go through a divorce.
If you don't trust his financial ability, consider that he might be doing things like spending money on a girlfriend, not paying his mortgage (which your name is probably on)... getting credit cards behind your back & running them up ... gambling... basically ruining YOUR credit in the process.
I suppose there is a way to make yourself safe from this, but not if you roll over and play dead to his demands for what pennies he's willing to toss you so that you can shop at goodwill.
It's nice to say that you live within your means, even if that means goodwill, but you spend 32 years supporting, organizign, and it sounds like being financial manager for a person who brought in a significant amount of money. You deserve more than scraps!
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gigi
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You may want to have your attorney draft a separation agreement to avoid questions like this in the future... to arrange for the pensions & IRA distributions & etc to be deposited into separate accounts rather than you continuing to be hoping on a month to month basis that he continues to send you something.
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delph1o
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Gigi: That's all true.
Here are my thoughts, and trust me I've thought about it alot while wondering every month if he will deposit and thinking am I losing something in the process in terms of timing and a settlement.
When I saw an attorney, she was very aggressive and eager to set things right. That scared me into thinking it would get way out of contol.
Anyway, he thought in our informal situation, we should only count his county salary and my income, not his consulting and university income. That skews things.
She did the dissomaster and it used the total income, deducted health insurance and marital obligations such as mortgage, property taxes. After all the deductions a 60/40 formula was applied. When I looked at it all and the fear of the whole process, I caved and let it go. It just seemed like more trouble than it's worth since it was for a three year spousal support order and the litigation fees would be so much. I think that if I do it I should at least wait till retirement.
The other big issues are health insurance and longterm care
which I don't know that I could keep. Perhaps if you keep paying it you can keep it. Don't know.
I also don't want to sell our properties. I don't know if we can agree not to sell them until we want to but that's probably the biggest thing.
It would be ironic if he and I were actually in agreement about things...but that doesn't seem to be the case.
So I think of all these things, going in circles and wind up here knowing all you said is true.
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Samsung
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"You deserve more than scraps!"
Are you sure you read her posts? She's getting $4500 a month now.
"so of COURSE you're in the woods because he wants the bigger place... but here's the thing, you're entitled to HALF the house in the woods but you're ALSO entitled to half the equity on the house in the city! That is, if you go through a divorce."
Assets will be split. But, we don't know how much is owed on each.
"If you don't trust his financial ability, consider that he might be doing things like spending money on a girlfriend, not paying his mortgage (which your name is probably on)... getting credit cards behind your back & running them up ... gambling... basically ruining YOUR credit in the process."
Hmmm...I never saw anything pertaining to anything like this, excpet HE doesn't want a divorce. Was she asked to move to the other house, or left voluntarily?...that we don't know.
It's not like you to make so many assumptions....are sure this is Gigi?
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delph1o
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Samsung:
Let me answer these questions. I'm getting 1500/month.
We owe 60,000 on our house. We owe nothing on the other. It was unfinished when I moved here and so I finished building it myself. I moved here because my two sons were increasingly abusive to me and I didn't have the capacity to deal with it anymore and he wouldn't step in to stop it. At that point we gave up on our relationship but never wanted to divorce because it didn't seem worth it.
Since then my sons are more mature and we're on good terms. We made decisions which may or may not make sense. I wish I knew what would be the best. I'm really not out for anything more than I would deserve. The peace of mind would be good. The resolution.
And from an TMI stand point, I have trouble standing up for myself and I don't believe anyone would really stand up for me. I assume it will not go well anyway, that's my problem. That's unfortunately my wiring, I'm sad to say.
Does a separation agreement stand on it's own or is it part of a legal separation? Is it enforcable? I think we need at least an in between step.
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delph1o
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Samsung:
The 54000/year he deposits is to cover the mortgage on the house he is living in, the taxes on properties and insurances. I get 18000/year. His take home when including his other income is around 15000 a month. Nothing is withheld on his other income. He withholds alot on the primary income.
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gigi
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Sam, she's not getting $4500 a month. From his $20,000 a month that he gets, accumulated from various pays & consulting positions, he deposits $4500 into an account from which she is supposed to pay the mortgage & utilities and bills. Of that amount, $1500 goes to the mortgage and utilities on the house she's living in, the rest goes to his own bills.
He does nto account for the other $15,000 per month that he receives from various sources, and who knows where it's going.
Yep, it's Gigi... it doesn't matter who moved out. He's controlling the pursestrings and demanding that she live on $38,000 a year (what he's giving to her plus her own income) while he lives on more than $150,000 per year. His own mortgage & utilities must be about $3500 per month because that's what's left over after her $1500 per month used for hers. So what's going on with the other ... gosh, it's about a hundred thousand, that he's earning every year? She's said some stuff about his arrogance, paranoia, & inability to handle finances, so I'm making some educated guesses when I say his othe rincome is not going for community purposes but rather is being frittered away on who knows what... whetehr it's gambling or a girlfriend or his own high end taste in whatever... it's something... and if he can't manage his spending, then her own credit is tied up with his and that's the potential damage. She could live by scrimping & saving and shpping at goodwill so that she never has credit debt, and STILL end up with bad credit if he's hiding stuff from her... and we know he's hiding SOMETHING... because he's got about $100K of income that she has no idea what he does with it.
And she says this has been the arrangement for the past 3 years of thier 32 year marriage. From most formulas, the amount of income she'd get from him would be about 50%... apparently it's 40% by the dissomaster program. In California (where she is), a community property state, she'd be entitled to half of everything they accumulated in the past 32 years ... and considering that they have at least 2 homes there that we know about, and the house values over the past 30 years there as well as his ongoing income, we can assume that the accumulation of assets has been substantial.
Given the numbers, what she's told us... it doesn't take a huge leap of logic to see that she's got some fear of taking the steps and negotiating a solution... it doesn't take a leap of logic that what he's sending to her is the scraps.
Now, OP... here's the thing. You're right that it's only another few years to retirement so it's not worth a huge fight to get extra income attributed to you. NOT worth the lawyer's fees... given the risk and likelihood that you'd end up with JUST enough more for the next few years to pay off those lawyers' fees, and then he retires.
But what I'm worried about is not the next few years, it's the years after that. What makes you think that he's suddenly going to give you 50% of everything (as your state says you deserve) after he retires and is living on a fixed income... when he doesn't want to give that to you NOW?
How about this... you get the divorce going, you do NOT ask for anything more than $1500 per month in alimony, (well, make it more like $2000 per month to account for the fact that alimony is taxable)... until his retirement, and after that you get half his retirement, and get the retirement accounts, pensions, houses, cars, etc split NOW. He may very well be willing to do this without argument since it's no bigger commitment to pay you than he's been paying so far, and since you're willing to live with that as your demand, then great. If you send the initial papers in with a proposed settlement agreement where you explain that all you're asking for is what he's already promised, and you're just trying to finalize things... he might even be darned friendly about it.
After it's final, you may end up having to pay COBRA for healthcare benefits. You'll have to look into that, or maybe your own full time job will get that for you?
Heck, if you're HAPPY keeping the smaller house and letting him take the bigger one (even if the equity is higher), then you could do that as well.
What this does for you? It puts you in no worse position than if you kept the same thing up as you're doing now, but with certainty that it's DONE and not having to walk on eggshells over it. It prevents you from inheriting from him if he passes away, so widows benefits are not an issue... but is your peace of mind really worth it? Is the possibility of getting rich through inheritance really worth walking on eggshells during what SHOULD be your best pre-retirement years? It's not like you expect it, so why hang on to the marriage in the hopes of becoming a widow? That is NOT a reason not to do this.
What else this does for you is it prevents him from finding another way to cut you out once retirement age hits. Because it's HIGHLY unlikely that he'll suddenly love living on so much less than he does not. For most prudent people, they plan to have investment (pension, etc) income of 70-80% of their pre-retirement income to see them through retirement comfortably ... so if he's figured that out... and NOW he's giving you less than 10% of the income he gets pre-retirement, why in hte WORLD do you think he'd be happy to give you 50% of his POST-retirement income... which would cut his own post-retirement incoem down to 35% of his pre-retirement income (with you getting the other 35%).
Do you see how likely it is that it will not do you any good to stay sitting quietly in the woods, praying for him to do the riht thing for you every month by depositing the money needed to pay the mortgage... do you SEE how this is NOT going to result in him giving you half his retirement as promised? Do you see how he's goign to spend the next 3 years trying to figure out how to cut you out of the retirement?
If you finalize it now while he's not thinking that far ahead (apparently, if he's still promising you get half of the retirement)... then maybe you'll GET the stuff he's promised, that you're willing ot live with... rather than having to keep quiet, keep the peace, adn pray for him to do the right thing from moment to moment.
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delph1o
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Samsung you said:
"Often alimony will ordered for a lifetime in a long term marriage, but since his retirement is not far off, and you are already getting half, his income is going to drop tremendously a couple years from now, and it will be reflected in the amount of alimony. Does you attorney given you a ball park figure? "
I was under the impression that once I recieve retirement the alimony would stop. His income will stay mostly the same from the county since he has maximum years in. It's CalPers. So he'll get the same plus lifetime health benefit. Our longterm care is with Pers and I hate to lose that this late in the game.
She figured my support would be around 4000 as I recall, then I would pay health insurance and taxes on that. That's including my income.
He'll recieve retirement from this university income as well and he can continue to work with the county after he retires. I think that's his plan.
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delph1o
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More on retirement.
There are no suvivors benefits in terms of a monthly distribution. I would get a lumpsum distribution. So if I got an order for half his retirement and he passed before he retired, I don't know if I would get my share. If I did, even if he passed before retiring, that would really be a great relief.
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Samsung
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"I was under the impression that once I recieve retirement the alimony would stop."
That's not neccessarily true. It depends on the size of the retirement.
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Samsung
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"How about this... you get the divorce going, you do NOT ask for anything more than $1500 per month in alimony, (well, make it more like $2000 per month to account for the fact that alimony is taxable)."
I'm confused on this. The OP has lived in the house for 3 years on her own, although the house does have joint ownership. If she offered to accept $2000 in alimony, the $4500 will end, so it will be a sudden drop of $2500/month. They will make the house unaffordable....unless a trade off of other assets results in the house being paid off. Another odd thing....it appears the house payment/insurance is $2800/month. It has got to be an awful short term mortgage if the balance is only $60K.
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Jada
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Is the amount that he has been paying court ordered? If so, simply write him back and tell him that he needs to continue paying what he is court ordered to or you will file contempt of court charges.
If not, have your attorney file for temporary support. This way, he doesn't get to decide when he pays and when he doesn't.
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Jada
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[quote]It appears that the tax refund came from HIS withholding taxes throughout the year, since you make very little. If you were separated when he earned this income from which the extra withholding tax was taken, then it is not your tax refund but his, and therefore, he is entitled to all of it. [/quote]
No, he is not entitled to all of it. They filed JOINTLY. He benefited from her exemption and filing jointly.
It is a marital asset and she only took half of it. Which is what a court would have ordered anyway.
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delph1o
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"I'm confused on this. The OP has lived in the house for 3 years on her own, although the house does have joint ownership. If she offered to accept $2000 in alimony, the $4500 will end, so it will be a sudden drop of $2500/month. They will make the house unaffordable....unless a trade off of other assets results in the house being paid off. Another odd thing....it appears the house payment/insurance is $2800/month.
Well, we actually split up about 6 years ago. We were really in debt. I didn't have a clue about finances but I knew we needed a budget. I put us on a budget to pay credit cards, closed accounts, refinanced the house with a 15 year loan at a lower interest rate, and made double payments on the house for a while to get it paid off by the time he retired.That's how he arrived at the 1500 amount for me. Again, the mortgage is on the house he lives in. The yearly amount of 27000 comes from adding up all monthly and annual bills related to the property and insurance...mortgage, longtermcare for both of us,disability,life insurance, property taxes on both properties. So, take 54000, subtract 27000, and then subtract 18000 for me, it leaves 9000 more for him.
BTW, The properties are joint tenancy. We also got a family trust after we split up
I can't stand the idea of giving up this for that, having to sell a house. I just don't want that. I just want retirement, income till then, insurance, me live here and him there...peace of mind.
Sorry, I didn't expect to share all this..you can see I like to clear things up. Could be helpful for people to see all this I guess.
Is there any family code that states division of refund. I also thought that if you file jointly, he benefits and therefore it's 50/50 as a community property asset. But again, there's nothing in writing and it may be better in the bigger scheme of things to let it go and use it as a way to open a discussion for the bigger picture in getting a formal agreement. Having it be about the tax benefits in writing off support for him might be appealing and make him less paranoid and suspicious.
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Samsung
Platinum
Reged: 06/14/07
Posts: 2210
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Ultimately, you have alot of assets, income, a long term marriage,a long term seperation, retirement funds, inheritance funds, 2 houses and other complications. You would need an attorney just to make sure every issue is covered. The easiest way would be to have it all on the table, and mediate the whole package at once, but it will take 2 willing participants for that to be possible. Good luck.
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delph1o
New
Reged: 05/27/08
Posts: 14
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Thanks. From a relatively small issue to a much bigger one, almost overwhelming. But this has been really helpful and so much to think about. I think the notion of going for what we're doing already makes sense.
You know when I went to an attorney thinking of getting a legal separation because I thought health insurance would stay the same and we wouldn't have to sell our houses she said, Why? If you're legally separated you're married. Get a divorce! I think the more you agree on before the better and it seems you have to stand your ground with an attorney.
So one more question:
Gigi mentioned a separation agreement. Is a separation agreement the same as a legal separation or is it an in between agreement.?Is this something you need a lawyer for and if it's not a legal separation is it enforcable?
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Jada
Platinum
Reged: 06/02/07
Posts: 3463
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A separation agreement is enforceable if a judge signs off on it making it a court order.
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delph1o
New
Reged: 05/27/08
Posts: 14
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When the judge signs off on it does it technically become a "legal separation". I'm trying to determine if they are two different things. Does the agreement stand alone and is enforcable or is it meant to be used as a step in the process of getting a legal separation or divorce. I was under the impression that it's a more interum agreement.
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gigi
Platinum
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