ttp1
New
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 17
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I'm in Indiana, and this will be the 2nd time that my ex has violated our divorce papers. The first time, she broke the Indiana First Right of Refusal and I had to get a police officer to help me retrieve my child when she wasnt watching him and I wasnt given the option to watch him.
This time, she moved and did not notify the courts of her moving. I'd like to pursue this, but dont want to spend the money on a lawyer due to it is a pretty much cut and dry case. My question though, is how can I file myself for this, and what would the possible repercussions be with her violating this?
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chatter box
Platinum
Reged: 11/09/07
Posts: 1304
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I know in some states you have 30 days after to give notice. How far did she move and do you know why. If your not carefull you will just look petty and if she has a lawer your waisting your time.
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ttp1
New
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 17
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It was only another 10 minutes away from where she lived, but she only gave me 1 days notice. Add to that, she is moving in with someone that I recently turned in a report to about possible child abuse.
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chatter box
Platinum
Reged: 11/09/07
Posts: 1304
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What are you trying to accomplish?
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ttp1
New
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 17
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I just want her to follow the rules as I have been. This and to use in the future when I go for full custody. I am also concerned about the safety of my child.
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chatter box
Platinum
Reged: 11/09/07
Posts: 1304
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You need to find out in your states family law if she has 30 days to give notice after the move. It doesn't have to be in the court orders either. The reason being if she is evected then there may be no way for her to give notice before the move. Child support is much the same way. It is late on a given date but not legally late for another 30 days.
It sounds like your unsure that what did happen in the house was abuse so you need to wait until more information is found out on that also.
You do not want to go into court and look like you are just being unreasonable. I understand you are concerned for kids but you have to have patients and a lot of it.
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ttp1
New
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 17
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I understand, I also just want it legally noted too that she has been throwing regard to the rules that the court set out the window. I checked the laws, and it is 90 days prior to moving, she did not do this. Complete disregard of the law if you ask me. Also to add to it, she is moving in with the person she had watch my son the last time I had to call the police because of her violating the Indiana First Right of Refusal law, which I have the police report for as well, was thinking of adding this to the contempt of court I was going to file if only to use later on down the road.
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leesie
Bronze
Reged: 05/28/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Wisconsin
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I know how you feel. My ex moved when we were sharing custody and refused to tell me until 3 months later. He also refused to offer me first right of refusal ALL the time. He'd rather have his parents watch the kids then let me pick them up. But hey, thats what people who think they are above the rules do.
Do you think its possible she didn't know she had to inform the courts? I mean, ten minutes away isn't akin to moving to another town (Or it could be I suppose, depending on where you live). Perhaps she thought it uneeded? Thats giving her the benefit of the doubt.
As the the accused child abuse, unless you have marks, or its coming out the child's mouth, the system is rather slow. My two best friends work for the child protection services, and they pretty much have their hands tied unless one of those two factors are in place.
What does the child say?
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I can't live within you-- David Bowie
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tlv
New
Reged: 05/23/08
Posts: 9
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Just wondering what is the First Right of Refusal?
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KU girl
New
Reged: 05/28/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Denver
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I think it means that if the child(ren) are with her and she needs childcare, that you should be offered the opportunity to watch them before she asks her parents/a sitter/etc.
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tlv
New
Reged: 05/23/08
Posts: 9
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Do they have to do this by law or is it just a nice gesture by that parent?
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ttp1
New
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 17
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leesie: there are marks, and he said this other person hit him.. i have pictures I have emailed child services.
TLV: this is law, not a nice gesture
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chatter box
Platinum
Reged: 11/09/07
Posts: 1304
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She has to give three months notice. That is a long time. That doesn't even make sence. If your buying a house you most likely wouldn't know three months before hand or even getting an appartment.
The abuse thing gives you more of a chance but if she removes herself from that situation you still have a long road ahead of you but hang in there.
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Jada
Platinum
Reged: 06/02/07
Posts: 3463
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The notifying courts of moving is usually when a parent moves out of state. The courts aren't going to view moving 10 minutes away as a big deal unless it is out of state. As long as she gave you her address so that you know where your child is.
As for the child abuse claim, until it is proven, there is nothing you can do about her moving in with that person.
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theanswerguy
Platinum
Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 2267
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Forget about it , she's not in contempt . Notice is only required for in-state moves greater than 100 miles or any out-of-state move .
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Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right. Isaac Asimov
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ttp1
New
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 17
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[quote]Forget about it , she's not in contempt . Notice is only required for in-state moves greater than 100 miles or any out-of-state move . [/quote]
actually, i just found out, you are wrong. doesnt even matter if they move across the street, they have to notify via the courts.
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jersey girl
Platinum
Reged: 08/07/06
Posts: 1629
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Here are the laws.
4. Relocation. When either parent or other person who has custody or parenting time considers a change of residence, a 90 day advance notice of the intent to move must be provided to the other parent or person.
Commentary
1. Impact Of Move. Parents should recognize the impact that a change of residence may have on a child and on the established parenting time. The welfare of the child should be a priority in making the decision to move.
2. Indiana Law. Indiana law (Ind. Code § 31-17-2.2) requires all individuals who have (or who are seeking) child custody or parenting time, and who intend to relocate their residence to provide Notice to an individual who has (or is seeking) child custody, parenting time or grandparent visitation. The Notice must be made by registered or certified mail not later than 90 days before the individual intends to move. The relocating party’s Notice must provide certain specified and detailed information about the move. This information includes: the new address; new phone numbers; the date of the proposed move; a stated reason for the move; a proposed new parenting time schedule; and must include certain statements regarding the rights of the non-relocating party. The Notice must also be filed with the Court. The notice is required for all proposed moves by custodial and non custodial parents in all cases when the proposed move involves a change of the primary residence for a period of at least sixty (60) days. This is true even when a person plans to move across the street or across town, and when a party plans on moving across the state or the country, or to another country.
Now - here is the reality. No court is going to hold her to this for a 10 mile move. She will demonstrate that she gave you as much notice as she could. She will state that it will not impact the custody because it was 10 miles.
And, unless it was in your agreement, she will state that she is unaware of that state law. No police officer will respond to it because it was civil. The court will charge you thousands of dollars to get this done.
So, take the step back. What do you want to accomplish? Is she in contempt of your agreement? If no, then what will you charge her with.
Unless the law is specificaly referenced in your agreement, the court is going to say don't do it again.
You cannot stop her from moving anywhere within the state of IN. All she is required to do is show that it will not have meaningful impact on your visitation.
What will happen if you do bring this? I suspect that it will lessen the impact of the abuse. Her lawyer will make a claim that you are harassing her.
Know that is not what you want to see, but it is the reality. You need to make sure that you are focused on the kids and not on her.
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ttp1
New
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 17
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I just want her to abide by the laws she is quoting me. If I dont pickup the phone, then she is saying "i'm breaking the Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines" like she is holier than thou with the law, when in fact, she doesnt know squat. What do I want out of this? To have it noted that she is breaking the rules and I am abiding, and 2. that she knows I mean business and because of this, will hopefully make her a more aware/better parent to my child.
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jersey girl
Platinum
Reged: 08/07/06
Posts: 1629
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Here is the Indiana GUIDELINE for ROFR:
3. Opportunity for Additional Parenting Time. When it becomes necessary that a child be cared for by a person other than a parent or a family member, the parent needing the child care shall first offer the other parent the opportunity for additional parenting time. The other parent is under no obligation to provide the child care. If the other parent elects to provide this care, it shall be done at no cost.
This is not a law. Your agreement should state it, but again, not a law! Your getting the police involved in a civil matter. All you should have done was file a report. That report would then be used to file contempt.
Be very careful - the system starts to shut down if you push it to criminalize the actions or enforce civil agreements.
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jersey girl
Platinum
Reged: 08/07/06
Posts: 1629
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ah, but there is the crux of the matter. You can only control her actions. You cannot make her do anything. Nothing you have stated here is grounds for full custody unless that abuse is proven and even that is not grounds because she is not doing it.
All you can do is your best to follow the guidelines. That is it. You really can't force her no matter how much we want to make them do the right thing.
I know that sucks - but you have to live the way you want to live - you cannot control what she does. You can, however, spend thousands in contempt citations that will get you nowhere.
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ttp1
New
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 17
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i agree jersey.. thank you for your posts too btw. I am going to use the police report as another thing she neglected to follow in the guidelines. We'll see what happens, hopefully it will be further ammo for down the road for when she continues to mess up will result in me having full custody of my child.. one can only hope.. it is a long road, but I am very diligent in following up and keeping track of things.
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jersey girl
Platinum
Reged: 08/07/06
Posts: 1629
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Just want to be realistic. My ex is in court right now on 13 counts of contempt including taking my kids across state lines, not returning them until police were involved and filing a false itinerary for the trip.
I have spent $5000 on legal costs. Trial is in July. Best I can hope for is some tightening of the wording and maybe he pays my fees.
and that is custodial interference. The stuff you have is not a drop in the bucket compared to what they see everyday.
while you are documenting, don't forget that you need to move forward. Sometimes documentation does nothing except keep you chained to your past.
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ttp1
New
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 17
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def. not chained to my past, just a big believer in if I play fair, she should be bound to those same rules.. rules are rules.
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Starion
Gold
Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 142
Loc: South Florida
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IMO it is mickey mouse - 10 minutes away - big deal. IMO the courts have a lot more important and pressing things to be doing. My ex bounces around a lot and has moved probably 10 times in the last 7 years. She never informed the court and I never made an issue about it. Child endangerment and abuse is one thing - a serious thing - but this move thing isn't.
IMO you need to be careful about which things your pursue. Courts tend to start blowing off people who continually file motions on stuff that really has no impact on the child/children.
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jersey girl
Platinum
Reged: 08/07/06
Posts: 1629
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TTP,
Your post said: just a big believer in if I play fair, she should be bound to those same rules
You are still asking other people to change your ex. The ONLY thing you can control is you. You cannot control your ex and neither can civil laws. You can document, but what we are all trying to say is that the ex will in all likelihood not be held accountable for these actions because they are small potatoes and not impacting the kids in a meaningful way.
In a perfect world, everyone plays by the rules. But they don't and you are wasting a TON of emotional energy on trying to change someone's behavior that doesn't want to change.
The court is not going to stop her from moving. They might tell her shame on you for moving without proper notice. They might not. She is moving in with that person. You have no control over it.
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