Divorce Support Forums: going back to court:

Almost two years ago, my ex and I had a very quick, inexpensive divorce, where he readily agreed to me having sole custody, and him getting visitation every-other weekend from Saturday am till Sunday 8pm (which he always cuts 2-3 hours short), two weeks in February (this year he took his girlfriend to Belize instead), and the ability to visit them in my home on Christmas day (which he never has done). About six months after the divorce, he called DCF and made false claims of abuse against me (which were thoroughly investigated and found to be unsubstantiated), six months after that he let the girls take my husband's last name (who has raised them since they were 2 months and 20 months), and now is spending all sorts of money to take me back to court to change the original agreement.
Anyway, I was thinking about my ex-husbands list of demands (that I just got from my attorney) and I was wondering if you guys thought my responses were reasonable and if it appears that either he or I are not looking at the best interest of the children. Let's discuss:

Demand #1: Joint legal custody. Our response: No way Jose. The main reason for this is because when we first got divorced, he gave that up pretty readily. And since then, he's let the girls take pete's last name, which pretty clearly indicates he is okay with schools, doctors, etc not readily recognizing him as a father...and therefore wasn't anticipating trying to get involved in those aspects of his life. He is pretty irresponsible and since I'm the one who is going to miss work when they're sick, etc, so I feel I've earned the right to be the primary decision maker. We wouldn't have had more children if we'd thought he'd have the ability to weigh in on decisions (like what religion they are) that would undoubtedly affect our new son too.

Demand #2: Have his weekend start Friday at 5pm instead of Saturday at 8am. Our response: No, no, no.

The problem that I have with the Friday night business is that if I have sole legal custody, I need Friday night with them to make sure they get their homework for the weekend done. I don't even get off work till 5 (and neither does he, in his busy season he gets off much later) so I have no idea why he thinks the girls would be available for pick up then. That is one less family dinner, one less bed time story, you get the idea. When the girls are older and want to participate in track, cheerleading, whatever, they are going to have practices and things on weeknights and I don't want him to ruin their chances of having a childhood with the extra curricular activities they decide to participate in.

Demand #3: Have us share in the transportation. We said fine. He can pick them up 8am our house on Saturday, and me or Pete can pick them up at 5pm his house on Sunday (which shaves time off his visitation) because we would need to get them home in time to feed them and bathe them before bedtime.

Demand #4: He said he wanted time on either the 24th, 25th, or 26th of December. We said, sure, you can have them from noon until 6pm on the 26th.

The reasoning behind this is when we were divorced, he gave me the entire Christmas break holiday with the ability to visit the children in my home on Christmas day (which he has never exercised). And, I had more children based on the agreement we were already following. I wouldn't have had a third child if I thought he was going to be waking up on his own on Christmas morning. Granted I only celebrate the pagan aspects of holidays, but there is still a lot of fun traditions associated with them. I've got pretty fond memories of going out shopping for door busters on the day after Christmas with my mom, too. They are girls, they should have that.

Demand #5: He said he wanted them during Christmas and winter breaks (end of February) every year. We said, you can have them for Dec 27th-29th on one year, and then 3 days during Winter break (excluding Nash's birthday) the following year. We're already at 4 1/2 extra days a now.

This only provides him with 2 extra overnights a year, which is a good thing for me to keep limited if he takes me to court again.

Demand #6: To claim the children on the tax exemptions every other year. Our response: hahaha.

He is griping about missing out on a $1 or 2K bonus last year when he's been paying the last two years of child support based on an income that is significantly less than what it really is. We're the ones having to set up house and home for them. We are re-setting up the child support based off his true salary from last year ($78K) as opposed to his draw-off-commission number (45K).

Demand #7: To have the children's social security numbers. Our response: No, no, no.

My take on this is what for? To do tax fraud? Put them on his insurance and then try to take them to doctors and convince them I'm abusing the kids? He's already harrassed me in the past with false claims of abuse to DCF. No, no, no.

Demand #8: To rotate every other Easter and Thanksgiving. My response: I want them their birthdays, their half-brother's b-day, My husband's birthday, my birthday, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, 4th of July, St Patrick's day, Halloween, and Valentine's day, and mother's day. If his weekend falls on one of these, he gets the next two weekends in a row (so I'm not getting any extra days by having these and they don't normally fall on a weekend anyway). He gets: Memorial day, Father's day, Columbus Day, Veteran's Day, Labor Day, and Martin Luther King day from 8am until 6pm. These always fall on Mondays, which he has never had before, so for him it's pure "extra" days.

I wouldn't have had a third child if I thought he was going to be hunting for easter eggs on his own on easter morning. I have taken both the girls to the Macy's parade every year since they've been born (Harper has been to four). When it comes to things like Halloween and 4th of July, when they are older their friends (who undoubtedly will live near me) will have halloween parties or want to trick or treat together and I don't want them to miss out.

I doubt he'll ever be able to get those off work, so I'm not sweating it.

Now, we're at 9 1/2-10 1/2 extra days a year (depending on where Father's day falls on a weekend he would already have them).

Demand #9: To have me "return" a bunch of personal paperwork of his that I never had (primarily because he never had it either). Why would I have a copy of his dad's death certificate if he never did?

Demand #10: To tell him if we're going to move. The last time I checked, we were legally obligated to do that anyway. And, we'd have a good enough reason to move he wouldn't be able to stop us anyway, so sure, why not.

Demand #11: To not allow the girls to call my husband "Dad" and to force the girls to call their biological father "dad." Our response: HAHAHA. He has raised them since they were 2 months and 20 months old. He has earned the title.

Demand #12: To have first right of refusal. So, let's say I'm away because I'm traveling for business or personal reasons. That means if he fancies, he can come take the kids away and keep them at his house (even if it means pulling them out of school for a week or having his girlfriend watch them the majority of the time). Our response: You must be kidding. If this is the type of crap you pull after you get jealous cuz I go to NZ, we are never doing anything where we have to notify you of where I am.

This is primarily because when I travel I still think the siblings should all three still be together, go to school, and these are the opportunities they have to spend with my parents who will come to my house to stay with them. They need to know their grandparents.

Demand #13: His busy time at work is during the summer. He wants two extra weeks of visitation to be at his discretion for when to exercise them. Our response: Tough sh*t. There is this little thing called SCHOOL. We said that he could have one week in early July (excepting 4th of July) and one week at end of August . Not consecutive. With dates to be confirmed by April 1st. His two weeks are to include a weekend he would normally have (in other words, he can't give dates for a week that starts on a Wed and ends on a Tues, including a weekend he isn't scheduled for and wind up with 3 weekends in a row). His weeks in July and August are to be at least four weeks apart so we can plan our own family vacation .

This also keep his consecutive nights limited to a max of six which would help me if he tries to take me back to court again. I'd like the summer visits to start in 2009 so that he isn't rewarded for not taking the two weeks in 2008 that he was supposed to take with them and decided to take his girlfriend on Belize instead.

Demand #14: He wants phone visitation during the week. We said sure. From 7:00-7:15pm on Wednesdays, he can talk to both girls on speakerphone with us present. I doubt they'll really pay much attention to the fact he is on the phone, but it's either that or give the phone to the girls so they can be in tears fighting over who gets to hold it and constantly hanging it up. The kids are 2 and 3 years old.

Demand #15: To have the girls for two weekends in a row in between every weekend that I get them. Our response: HAHAHA.

We also put:

If he is 10 minutes late picking them up without calling, he forgoes the visitation. If we got to pick them up and they aren't there, 10 minutes late without calling and his next visitation is forgoed. All visitation is use it or lose it. We're also putting into the legal agreement that he is to provide the children with a vegetarian diet only. And also that if he takes me back to court again, that if I win, he pays my legal fees. We also said he is not to fly or take the girls out of New England. This is primariy because of the types of friends he has in Seattle.

So, are his requests (from someone who agreed to very limited visitation originally and doesn't have a great track record of taking what he has, let me change the girls last names, made false claims to dcf and also lives an hour away) seem outlandish or not in the best interest of the kids? What about my responses?

Knowing guys like him, do you think he'll know to stop when he is ahead, or am I going to court?

[quote]Demand #1: Joint legal custody.

**Not worth the fight...mainly gives him access to records. My ex and I have this, yet I make ALL the necessary decisions due to his lack of involvement.

Demand #2: Have his weekend start Friday at 5pm instead of Saturday at 8am.

**I think that he can/should be responsible for school work also. Make it part of the agreement and that if he doesn't hold his end that the visitation will revert back.

Demand #3: Have us share in the transportation. We said fine. He can pick them up 8am our house on Saturday, and me or Pete can pick them up at 5pm his house on Sunday (which shaves time off his visitation) because we would need to get them home in time to feed them and bathe them before bedtime.

**How much time is being shaved off and how far does he live? Can't he feed & bathe them first?

Demand #4: He said he wanted time on either the 24th, 25th, or 26th of December. We said, sure, you can have them from noon until 6pm on the 26th.

**That's unreasonable...why shouldn't he get a share in the holiday? Just because he let you have it before doesn't mean that he shouldn't get any time now. Alternate Christmas Eve & Christmas day. I would refuse to visit my kids in my ex's home at anytime...and especially if they were this unreasonable. He should be able to make memories with the kids too, your memories don't supercede his rights. Nor does shopping with grandma.

Demand #5: He said he wanted them during Christmas and winter breaks (end of February) every year.

**He should get half of Christmas break and every other spring break...shouldn't he get a chance to spend the vacation time with the kids too?

This only provides him with 2 extra overnights a year, which is a good thing for me to keep limited if he takes me to court again.

**Why? Are you concerned about your child support amount or something?

Demand #6: To claim the children on the tax exemptions every other year. Our response: hahaha.

**This is pretty standard to either claim kids every other year or to be able to claim one child per year. Whether or not you think his support is efficient, that should be done by state guidelines and not deviated from. He does need to have a place for them to sleep and eat while he has them doesn't he?

Demand #7: To have the children's social security numbers. Our response: No, no, no.
***Why not? It's his right as a parent to have that information, he may need it for life insurance purposes or to set up a savings account for them...it's information that he has a right to have.

Demand #8: To rotate every other Easter and Thanksgiving. My response: I want them their birthdays, their half-brother's b-day, My husband's birthday, my birthday, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, 4th of July, St Patrick's day, Halloween, and Valentine's day, and mother's day. If his weekend falls on one of these, he gets the next two weekends in a row (so I'm not getting any extra days by having these and they don't normally fall on a weekend anyway). He gets: Memorial day, Father's day, Columbus Day, Veteran's Day, Labor Day, and Martin Luther King day from 8am until 6pm. These always fall on Mondays, which he has never had before, so for him it's pure "extra" days.

**Your being unreasonable.

Demand #9: To have me "return" a bunch of personal paperwork of his that I never had (primarily because he never had it either). Why would I have a copy of his dad's death certificate if he never did?

**He can go to the county clerks office and get the death certificate himself...this has no place in custody issues.

Demand #10: To tell him if we're going to move. The last time I checked, we were legally obligated to do that anyway. And, we'd have a good enough reason to move he wouldn't be able to stop us anyway, so sure, why not.

Demand #11: To not allow the girls to call my husband "Dad" and to force the girls to call their biological father "dad." Our response: HAHAHA. He has raised them since they were 2 months and 20 months old. He has earned the title.

**Whether he has earned the title or not shouldn't matter, but this is a pointless demand and the kids should call stepdad whatever they feel comfortable with and real dad should get over it.

Demand #12: To have first right of refusal. So, let's say I'm away because I'm traveling for business or personal reasons. That means if he fancies, he can come take the kids away and keep them at his house (even if it means pulling them out of school for a week or having his girlfriend watch them the majority of the time). Our response: You must be kidding. If this is the type of crap you pull after you get jealous cuz I go to NZ, we are never doing anything where we have to notify you of where I am.

This is primarily because when I travel I still think the siblings should all three still be together, go to school, and these are the opportunities they have to spend with my parents who will come to my house to stay with them. They need to know their grandparents.

**First right of refusal would mean that HE is taking care of the kids, not his girlfriend. He should not be able to take them out of school, period. The grandparents rights don't supercede the fathers rights...

Demand #13: His busy time at work is during the summer. He wants two extra weeks of visitation to be at his discretion for when to exercise them. Our response: Tough sh*t. There is this little thing called SCHOOL. We said that he could have one week in early July (excepting 4th of July) and one week at end of August . Not consecutive. With dates to be confirmed by April 1st. His two weeks are to include a weekend he would normally have (in other words, he can't give dates for a week that starts on a Wed and ends on a Tues, including a weekend he isn't scheduled for and wind up with 3 weekends in a row). His weeks in July and August are to be at least four weeks apart so we can plan our own family vacation .

**It's not reasonable for him to take kids during school year because it's more convenient...it is reasonable for you to ask for specific dates in writing by a certain date so that you may plan your summer as well.

This also keep his consecutive nights limited to a max of six which would help me if he tries to take me back to court again.

**Your mentioning this again...why are you concerned with this?

Demand #14: He wants phone visitation during the week. We said sure. From 7:00-7:15pm on Wednesdays, he can talk to both girls on speakerphone with us present. I doubt they'll really pay much attention to the fact he is on the phone, but it's either that or give the phone to the girls so they can be in tears fighting over who gets to hold it and constantly hanging it up. The kids are 2 and 3 years old.
**Kids that age are hard to speak to on the phone, but the amount of time you are offering is ridiculous anyhow.

Demand #15: To have the girls for two weekends in a row in between every weekend that I get them. Our response: HAHAHA.

**His request here is not reasonable.

We also put:

If he is 10 minutes late picking them up without calling, he forgoes the visitation. If we got to pick them up and they aren't there, 10 minutes late without calling and his next visitation is forgoed. All visitation is use it or lose it.

**Standard time is 20-30 minutes - not 10...and doesn't apply to the future visitation. Your unreasonable in requesting this.

We're also putting into the legal agreement that he is to provide the children with a vegetarian diet only.

**Why?

And also that if he takes me back to court again, that if I win, he pays my legal fees.

We also said he is not to fly or take the girls out of New England. This is primariy because of the types of friends he has in Seattle.

**You can't control his life or his time with the kids.

So, are his requests (from someone who agreed to very limited visitation originally and doesn't have a great track record of taking what he has, let me change the girls last names, made false claims to dcf and also lives an hour away) seem outlandish or not in the best interest of the kids? What about my responses?

Knowing guys like him, do you think he'll know to stop when he is ahead, or am I going to court? [/quote]

Honestly, I think you are extremely UNREASONABLE. Your not thinking in the best interest of your kids, instead you are trying to punish their father for his past bad acts and it's all about YOU YOU YOU. At their ages of 2 & 3, they should have more of an opportunity to get to know their father...and you are obviously not willing to provide that opportunity. If you aren't more reasonable than he SHOULD bring you to court and he probably will win a lot more just because of your stubbornness and inability to try to co-parent.