What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 739
Loc: PA
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Met with atty last week. My disabled wife will likely get perm alimony but instead i told my atty id like to start out offering 600/month for full 12 years of marriage. My atty plus another one i interviewed said i'd likely have to pay 1100 in PRE D alimony but unsure what after the D is final. (PA has a weird law)
she looked at me like WOW you are generous. I said well i heard the norm is 1/2 marriage and ill likely pay perm alimony anyway and we need a starting point. Plus i dont wanna insult her and make her MORE resolved. And my wifes atty hasnt returned her calls in a month so maybe he will just accept this and be done with it. I just dont want to seem so preposterous and lowballing given the circumstances.
so what do you think?
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call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 5050
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I agreed with your lawyer and repeatedly asked if you were sure that the pre-divorce amounts were going to be ongoing. It seemed to me that PA's pre-divorce alimony requirements were likely to make litigation stretch out, endlessly, becasue no one would have motice to settle if they get cut off from the high pre-d alimony monies the minute the judge signs the final decree, but that's PA's weird system.
As your LAWYER what would be a reasonable offer in the circumstances, without regard to what you've offered. You hired a lawyer, are paying the money... so let her do her JOB and give you some legal counsel. And with HER, don't do as you've done with US and present her with a deal you think is GREAT... where you get all the property and make her walk out the door with zero... then pay a ton of alimony to make up for it. No asking about what kind of manipulations you can come up with to reduce the value of your house to zero so that you never have to make an equalizing payment for it... just give her the whole story and ASK what she thinks is a reasonable settlement.
And don't be surprised if she says you owe $5,000 in equalizing payments but maybe will only have to pay $300 alimony for 5 years... and in the long run.... you come out ahead... $5,000 plus $300 X 5 years equals a total of $23K... while the ZERO that you're so obsessed about paying on the property settlement, added to your offer of $600 for 12 years, is more like $86K!
I don't know if the twists & turns & turning yourself into a pretzel over trying to get the current offer put together has put you in a position where it would be impossible for you to negotiate out of it... but you should at least ASK your lawyer and make her give you the advice that you're paying for... and AFTER you get her advice, figure out whether your way is better in the long run or whether the law would have given you a better result in the long run.
If you end up settling with your stbx for whatever is standard practice in your county, no one is going to say you pulled dirty tricks and left your ex with nothing... if the law says that she gets very little becasue she SHOULD follow through with her rehab and get herself back to work, then there's no reason you should continue to support her illness... that's part of what "enabling" is all about... you supporting her to a point where she does not feel the motivation to resolve her issues...
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mrpat
Platinum
Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 2638
Loc: Michigan
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It's her job to get the alimony. I wouldn't offer anything. I will never understand the whole alimony thing. You were married for 12 yrs why indenture yourself for the rest of your life? Divorce is not meant to bind two people for the remainder of their days on earth.
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People don't care how much you know.........until they know how much you care.
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What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 739
Loc: PA
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[quote]It's her job to get the alimony. I wouldn't offer anything. [/quote]
but my wife's atty hasn't called her back in a month and i'm tired of waiting for him. Maybe you'd be happy sitting here next to her while he gets his butt in gear but i'm not. He literally hasn't asked her for any financial data whatsoever. So if, as you say, i wait for her to ask..it literally could be 'forever'
so i went to my atty and said hey i need to get this moving, i cant wait, i'm tired of her living with me. Also she's clearly stated she wants all this settled before she moves out so unless she changes her tune, i really dont think i'll be doing that pre D alimony thing
so the reason i am even offering is because i want to get SOME kind of response from her atty and her. I need to start the fight. (her atty never even responded to the filing!!!!!!) This is how i do things in my job too...when people dont respond, i tell them they owe me huge sums of money and that gets them to produce documents and start negotiating in a hurry lol. so in this case ill lowball the atty and of course he will want more..but on the off case they accept, im happy with it.
Also my atty asked me what i wanted to offer. I think that's a reasonable thing to do. She didnt balk at the 600, but did say the length of time i offered was long. So maybe ill cut back on that to 6 years. Dont' forget, medical is a BIG deal for my wife and i'm sure her atty will know that her insurance will be costing 400+ a month and asking for more than that. So i figured i should offer a bit more than that 400 . i dont wanna insult her and make her/them get more resolve.
as far as my atty's advice, she told me before i'm very likely looking at perm alimony (i always ask what she would do if she was my wife's atty) and she told me that the judges unfortunately use the PRE D alimony number (1100) as a basis for the post D number. So my theory is offer something good enough that her atty will tell her hey, this is better than the standard in the county (and also he will see it as a way to get rid of her since he's obviously not interested in the case) and that maybe she should ask for a little more but the length is reasonable
and my atty told me should this go to master, all pre master negotiations arent admissible so we start from scratch there (ie i dont have to worry about what i offered before screwing me)
as far as the house, i told my atty i'd gladly pay more for the house (assuming i get a good refi) but a proportional decrease in alimony so i can pay the higher mortgage. She wanted me to get an appraisal but i said no, i'm not paying for 2 appraisals (one for her guy, one for the mortgage guy i actually turn out using) PLUS dont forget my wife wont trust those numbers anyway and she will be getting one i'm sure.
so i figured i'd offer my wife 10K and let her tell me what she wants. She wont say anything about what she wants so there's "nothing' to fight about now and that ticks me off! lets fight already!
then there is the tiny chance when her mom comes this week they will fire that atty and find a new one...but i cant imagine too many are willing to make housecalls and he was close to our house. So we shall see
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call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 739
Loc: PA
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oh i forgot, my atty thinks its a good thing that my wife has the 15K in the bank...she said it shows she has assets and that while it will disqualify her for state aid, it may show any judge she isn't poor and destitute. And it may help keep the alimony down. (in addition to me offering her more of a lump)
i also did a spreadsheet about what she's likely wanting money for (stuff acquired during marriage). If i count 1/2 of the 15K as mine, and give her 10K for house, it turns out i only owe her 7K for 'everything'
i'm not naive enough to think she will accept my numbers but even double my estimates and i can live with 14K easily assuming the house appraises.
One other thing i keep forgetting about is she will get an addtional 5K plus interest as i'm paying off the car we just bought..(share loan against savings)..she will have over 5K in cash and ill have a car that today is only worth 3K, cant imagine what it will be worth in a few years. So she's making out on that but i dont mind
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call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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justmejulia
Gold
Reged: 04/12/07
Posts: 186
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Will you marry me next? "joking!"
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What will I lose
Platinum
Reged: 05/21/07
Posts: 739
Loc: PA
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[quote]Will you marry me next? "joking!" [/quote]
sign this prenup please :)
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call me WWIL...PA resident 39 year old , married 11 years, together 12...splitting in 13th year.
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