gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 4836
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[quote]I realize I have done way more than I needed to for my son but isnt that what a parent is supose to do.[quote]
Your own issues with your mother suggest that maybe you don't have the best example of what a parent is supposed to do for their child. Especially an adult child. A parent is supposed to give an example, to stand behind their child, but not to make the decisions for teh child, not to direct the child, not to do it for them... from the moment they start walking, the job becomes to figure out how to give them more freedom and educate them to what is facing them so that you can be comfortable in letting them do it for themselves. From the kid learning to climb the steps or get a glass of water from the fridge for himself, to the adult child who needs to figure out how to be a father for himself... you CAN NOT do it all for them. you MUST let them do it or else they'll never be able to do it on thier own.
At a certain level, if they've not got the background yet, then you need to TEACH them, help them organize and structure their lives so that they develop the proper habits for living, but ... well, by the time they're parents on thier own, you really NEED to back off and let them do it or else ... you might as well be spoon feeding him baby food and not trusting him with anything more complicated than a sippy cup, let he spill.
But what I find particualrly interesting is that you are all ready to champion your own child's cause, and you are somehow not recognizing that the woman who is HIS "enemy" is ALSO a mother... the mother of the children you're trying to get for him. A woman who is JUST as responsible for doing for HER kids as YOU are in doing for YOURs... More so, becasue her kids are still underage and NEED the help.
Yours will never fly if you let him stay in the nest, keep giving him the "help".
Look... my husband is a great father. HE wants to spend more time as a father with his kids, and because of the structure of thier lives, they do not find it FUN to be with him (thier mother has them over-booked, so they're always exhausted when they're here). I've suggested to him that maybe we just need to schedule things that will similarly exhaust them, becasue that seems to be what they define as "fun"... but he does not.
I COULD do it for him, in the name of being a supportive wife and step-mother. I COULD book us for wild adventures every other week when we have the kids... but I learned not to. I am the kid's stepmother, NOT thier father, and I can not take his place for them. He has to do it for himself.
YOU are their grandmother. YOu are NOT their father. No matte rhow much you would like to, you can not BE a father for him.
What you have been doing is different from a parent who recognizes that the kid can't afford the divorce and will help pay for a lawyer (then LET the lawyer do thier job)... or from a parent who sees that the kids are in trouble and need a sitter but can't afford one, so she offers to babysit for them so they can get away. What you are doing seems to be trying to do it FOR him.
It sounds like your own mother was not involved enough and so you're wanting to do better. We are trying to tell you that what you're doing is the OPPOSITE... NOT better, just a problem but in a different direction. And frankly, the direction of OVER-involved, in an adult parent of an adult child... is WORSE than the under-involved adult parent of an adult child. At least the under-involved parent of an adult child is not making things worse, you know?
Oh, by the way, I'm glad you got your vacation worked out. How did that happen? Who was the one who approached her and made it work? Was it you, or was it your son, or was it the lawyer? Or maybe his stbx or her family wanted to do the right thing and initiated this?
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mawmawpammie
Bronze
Reged: 03/19/08
Posts: 49
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I truly know what you are saying and I guess yes I do try to make up for things I feel my mother shouldve done or should be doing.My mother hates kids and she would never fight for one.The thing is not only has my son let me be this involved but so has the STBX.And my biggest fear is that if I dont comply then I will be kept from seeing the kids all together.That is the fear that I have lived with for 7yrs and more so in the past three.As for my son I can only say that we almost lost him in a car accident and maybe I do feel a stronger need to baby him.I have a lot to learn from this too I DO realize that.
As for who approached the mother about vacation,I did.My son had ask her after I diD and she said she had to think about it,but he made an arguement about it.Her reply to me was that she didnt want the kids to be pissed off at her if she said no.We are all really looking foward to the trip.Thank you
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gigi
Platinum
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 4836
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OK, I would suggest this for the future. If YOU want the kids to do something with YOU. Then YOU hadnle it sepearately from what your son is doing in the divorce. Don't you arrange something and then have your son proceed with it as if it's something he arranged and wants on HIS own, because his commitment to this thing that you want will not be as strong as your commitment. And his need to get this SPECIAL thing taken care of FOR YOU will maybe interfere with the regualr progress of getting a long term regular parenting plan worked out.
What you're not seeing is the long term affect all this "mothering" that you're doing will have on his ability to be a fully responsible parent in his own right.
Look... if I had a kid with a man who had been in a devastating accident, whose mother was basically running things but who was not able to manage having a job and his rehab and being a parent on his own, you can BET I'd be trying to make certain he had less time with the kids.... I'd never keep them from their grandmother, but if Dad is merely a spokesperson for Grandma, and couldn't stand up and speak for himself, then that doesn't make him much of a Dad, does it? I'd certainly wait for him to be willing and able to take control of his own life before I'd be willing to give up more time with the kids to him.
Your presence in this is bound to make him look incompetent as a father. She may be very willing to let you be in the middle because she does not trust him and thinks he's an incompetent parent, but that does not make him any better as a parent and does not make it any more likely that she'll be willing to give him more time with the kids. HE may have been willing to let you be this involved because it's easier for him... because he is NOT a full fledged adult man yet who is competent and capable of takign care of the kids on his own, and for THAT reason HE may have let you be this involved... but it does not bode well for his abilities as a parent.
Your mere presence here is preventing him from BECOMING a full fledged father. It's preventing him from proving that he's competent to do it on his own. And it may very well be the thing that hurts the whole negotiation for a long term parenting plan in the long run.
Whether or not they both want you involved, you MUST find a way out. Unless, of course, you WANT people to think your son is incompetent and incapable of taking care of kids on his own and maybe you are the only person who is capable of htis so rather than giving him rights to parent the kids, YOU should have rights to VISIT with them ...
It's not a good thing for you to be this involved.
Look, for a family vacation, it's perfectly reasonable for you to send her a note, saying you've invited the kids to Tennessee for the last half July and you're hoping she'll let them come... saying you need a response by the weekend of the 4th so that you can get the tickets & such... but that's YOUR vacation, not your son's.
OR, you can ask him if he wants to bring the kids to Tennessee with him when he comes on the fmaily vacation, and let HIM negotiate the timing with his stbx. Letting it be HIS vacation with them for the summer and HIS negotiation to resolve (or not).
But it si NOT acceptable for you to issue the invitation and then put HIM on the task fo trying to negotiate it and double-team her, making it clear that you are pulling the strings and he is merely the puppet. This does not make him a Dad, just your pawn. It's not a good setup.
Have a great vacation, then figure out how to resolve letting him be fully responsible for the kids. Heck, do this on the vacation. Back off and don't mother the grandkids... make HIM make arrangements if he wants to go out with the adults... don't automatically assume that you'll be organizing thier time. Give him suggestions if he wants (like take them for a hike or take them skating)... but don't make the plans for the hike and LEAD it... it's HIS thing to do.
Practice letting him take the lead in his own kids' lives, which si the proper thing to do.
Unless, of course, you believe that fathers aren't important and mothers (and grandmotehrs) are more important... unless you agree that he's not competent to do this for his own kids and THAT is why you're doing it all... and if that's the case, stop using him as a pawn, just come flat out and assert your rights as a grandparent that the kids are close to... who they need to see...
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mawmawpammie
Bronze
Reged: 03/19/08
Posts: 49
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I do see your point there and I know all of this is very true.Maybe I havnt seen it because I have been so busy being referee.My son does have a job and he has had it for 8yrs now ,and he is capable of taking care of the children,sometimes not like I would but as you said,he is the father not me and as parents we all think we could do better.My question is how do I tell them no more having me in the middle without risking my time with the kids?I am the sole care taker when they work.Nobody else even offers to care for them,not even in her family,which is fine with me,but I see her every day and I know her life as well as my sons.She will not have a conversation with my son without telling him something is none of his business even if it is about the children.Thats how I got put in the middle to start with."you can tell him this or that"was the words she used.
She thinks he isnt capable of handling the kids and has threatened to keep them from him if he isnt supervised yet nothing is in court form of any kind.
I want my son to be happy with his children because I know that I wont always be around,but it has been placed in my lap like this and I dont know what to do.
I feel that fathers are just as important as mothers.Just simply being a parent and being there for your children deserves credit in its-self,doesnt matter if you are a mother or father.
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chatter box
Platinum
Reged: 11/09/07
Posts: 1195
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[quote]how do I tell them no more having me in the middle without risking my time with the kids?[/quote]
I think it's time you told them to grow up and not put you in the middle. Tell them your going to stop playing referee between them. You will be there for the grandkids if either of them needs help but no more playing middle man. A day care provider wouldn't put up with it and neither should you. I've never really commented on any of your post but from afar it sounds like she has controle issues and you son has a problem over coming that so you step in. Your son is going to have to put his foot down at some point. I think someone told you that weeks ago. I'm not trying to be harsh ( I know you love your son and grandkids) but I think until you step back and let him have more controle of himself you will be the ref.
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mawmawpammie
Bronze
Reged: 03/19/08
Posts: 49
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I think sometimes I just get really angry at how they treat the children as if they are chips to bargain with.She would have him to be out of the picture and he would like the same.Neither one of them consider the fact that they had these two children together at one point that they loved each other.And now because they want to be selfish,free,rid of each other,that we all must suffer most importantly the kids.
I was really close to the mother after they seperated but then I learned she was going to lie about things and I couldnt trust her anymore.If you have to lie to get what you want when it comes to the kids then it must be wrong to have in the first place,right????
Anyway,you dont know how much these post are helping me.I ask my hubby if I could have myself committed and he said NO,because the children still need me.So thank you for all the advice and I am sure that I would be here again.For now,things are calm.
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